TS3 L&P

[kiki]

Well, what'd you expect? It's like the base game, only the ENTIRE GAME IS A SINGLE GIANT LOT, so figure out how many RAMs that would take up.

See, that would shit me. I can see myself having a laser mouse spaz out and finding myself half way across the neighbourhood from the house I'm attempting to play.

[zherok]

I get the impression from previews that you'd probably have to zoom upwards really far in order to get that sorta distance. Most angles you'd normally play on you couldn't see halfway across a neighborhood. It's a bit hard to tell though, since not one preview has showed actual gameplay. And I'm pretty skeptical that zooming is that seemless... That said, the latest preview showed a car sequence, and it looked like a slightly closer version of watching a car in SimCity 4. I imagine when you're looking at things on that level they aren't terribly detailed.

I don't want to sound like I'm defending the thing. My current computer won't even touch the game, and EA offering 4gb of ram as a potential requirement is pretty wtf inducing. I'm not skeptical as to whether that's realistic or not, particularly if you want things to be as seemless and fluid as their current previews do.

[Mirelly]

I was amused to see that they claim support for the ati x1950. This proves they have no idea -- based on practical experience -- what hardware the game will work on. Many incarnations of the x1950 are plagued with fan-speed problems (including there being no way to force changes to fan speed control with standard ATI overclocking tools). The card is unique in being unsupported by all other overclocking tools (that I could find). The only effective way I could find to fix the issue was to overwrite the card's BIOS with a 3rd party effort. Since failure in that task would mean I'd need to get another PCIe card to see what I was doing to flash it back, I decided to see how it would last. It ran for 8 weeks at 88°C (when idling ... my bad!) before it finally fried in its own stupidity.) Last time I buy without first Googling the product's name along with a variety of sample problem words, like overheating, crashing, failure, etc..

[kiki]

I was amused to see that they claim support for the ati x1950. This proves they have no idea -- based on practical experience -- what hardware the game will work on. Many incarnations of the x1950 are plagued with fan-speed problems (including there being no way to force changes to fan speed control with standard ATI overclocking tools). The card is unique in being unsupported by all other overclocking tools (that I could find). The only effective way I could find to fix the issue was to overwrite the card's BIOS with a 3rd party effort. Since failure in that task would mean I'd need to get another PCIe card to see what I was doing to flash it back, I decided to see how it would last. It ran for 8 weeks at 88°C (when idling ... my bad!) before it finally fried in its own stupidity.) Last time I buy without first Googling the product's name along with a variety of sample problem words, like overheating, crashing, failure, etc..

I have an x1950 from powercolor with the artic cooling fan (they mod the original fan off the radeon and put the arctic cooling one on to ship) - works like a charm and I've never had heating issues with it. I have 3 other case fans on that desktop, but my system with that GPU in it idles at approx 34°C in a non-air conditioned and poorly ventilated room.

[zherok]

I'm sure you could find plenty of examples on the list that have problem spots. I've got a 6600 GeForce card that requires more power than the manufacturer claims and has all sorts of driver issues (as in, updating to the newest drivers is apparently a bad thing), but that's hardly EA's fault.

[Mirelly]

I was amused to see that they claim support for the ati x1950. This proves they have no idea -- based on practical experience -- what hardware the game will work on. Many incarnations of the x1950 are plagued with fan-speed problems (including there being no way to force changes to fan speed control with standard ATI overclocking tools). The card is unique in being unsupported by all other overclocking tools (that I could find). The only effective way I could find to fix the issue was to overwrite the card's BIOS with a 3rd party effort. Since failure in that task would mean I'd need to get another PCIe card to see what I was doing to flash it back, I decided to see how it would last. It ran for 8 weeks at 88°C (when idling ... my bad!) before it finally fried in its own stupidity.) Last time I buy without first Googling the product's name along with a variety of sample problem words, like overheating, crashing, failure, etc..

I have an x1950 from powercolor with the artic cooling fan (they mod the original fan off the radeon and put the arctic cooling one on to ship) - works like a charm and I've never had heating issues with it. I have 3 other case fans on that desktop, but my system with that GPU in it idles at approx 34°C in a non-air conditioned and poorly ventilated room.

Like I said. If only I'd bothered to Google before ordering, I could've got a decent version. The cost of modding the Sapphire card replacing the fan, and probably the BIOS too, exceeded my estimate of the value of doing so. The card had been installed for three weeks before I checked and found exactly how hot it was running.

[nekonoai]

I have a dual core amd on my gaming rig... and a damn good video card, so I'm hoping that it will work.
However, I'd actually prefer a smaller town, so I'm wondering if we can choose the town's size, much like the way we can choose lot sizes. That would be cool.

[talysman]

You can't even choose the town's name. And you can't choose where to place lots, only what to build on them. So no, you won't be able to choose the town's size, although you could manually kill off most of the sims and bulldoze most of the lots.

[eevilcat]

However, I'd actually prefer a smaller town, so I'm wondering if we can choose the town's size, much like the way we can choose lot sizes. That would be cool.

You can't even choose the town's name. And you can't choose where to place lots, only what to build on them. So no, you won't be able to choose the town's size, although you could manually kill off most of the sims and bulldoze most of the lots.

No doubt you'll have to wait for them to release the separate editing tools EP to do any of this. I get the impression that EAxis initially want us to be playing their vision of TS3 rather than creating our own; why expand functionality when you can take it away and make the players pay to add it back in later?

[zherok]

I doubt they'd do a whole tools EP, could definitely see it riding as a feature of some silly expansion full of content you may or may not want though. A tools only EP would involve doling out a ton of core features all at once, after all.

I wish they showed more gameplay shots, all the info they've released now seems like pure scripted machinima. You can't play the game at that angle. There seems to be a huge focus on what all the NPCs are doing, and near zero focus on what you can actually do.

[Mootilda]

A friend of mine has an interesting theory:  EA knows that TS3 isn't as much fun to play as TS2 was, so they are avoiding showing us the gameplay in the hopes that we'll buy it before we find out how horrible it is.

[kaitco]

I doubt they'd do a whole tools EP, could definitely see it riding as a feature of some silly expansion full of content you may or may not want though. A tools only EP would involve doling out a ton of core features all at once, after all.

I know I definitely would not put it passed them.

For months now I have been predicting that all tools that will be available to make custom content or even to customize any part of the game will be EAxis "sanctioned" or only available through that detestable Sims Store and, if they are not going to get us through their hording the first available customizing tools, then they will get us through the EPs.

What is to stop them from creating a "Neighborhood Explorer!" EP where people could have simple things like the ability to move lots wherever we choose, or create new lots, or even expand the single neighborhood for as far as a system could handle? They could also include new walls, build mode options, etc. to stuff in this new EP and the only way to get what should have been shipped in the original game is to buy the new EP. I see them trying to nickel and dime everything they can out of this game and the best way to do that is through EPs and SPs.

Also, something to keep in mind is that EAxis is a struggling business like many others in the current economic climate and they are not only trying to bring up today's numbers, but also make sure that their Quarter 4 profits for 2010 and so on will live up to what they forecast. Rather than take time to create something that will be well-tested, generally fun to play and can reach as wide an audience as possible, they renege on what they have already promised (ie: making the game playable for "old, clunker PCs") and ensure that they can drag every last dollar out of the people who are guaranteed to buy their lousy product.

[zherok]

I don't think it'd be practical. EA seems to love micro transactions and selling the same stuff to you over and over again, but I think charging for the tools would be a move even they could recognize as poor. Charging for tools you previously gave away is bound to cause backlash, and reduce sales. Additionally it caps creation to some degree. You inhibit the community, which is for the most part producing completely free content for your game, for an expansion's worth of profit? Lastly, the Sims 2 and Spore are the most pirated games on the planet right now. You release an expansion that's pure tools, and you've just created the world's most pirated expansion without even trying.

I wouldn't put it past them entirely, but even EA recognizes the free ride they're getting with the Sims community. You can inhibit to some degree, but to block it off entirely unless you buy a $40 expansion seems like you'd be shooting the IP in the foot for a minor gain.

[Mirelly]

You can't even choose the town's name. And you can't choose where to place lots, only what to build on them. So no, you won't be able to choose the town's size, although you could manually kill off most of the sims and bulldoze most of the lots.

I sort of suspected that it'd be a return to TS1. I'm already pretty certain that most of the so-called buildings shown in the screenshots are just eye-candy that playable sims cannot actually enter.

[zherok]

The previews seem to show people moving about inside houses outside your house of focus.  My problem would be whether or not I'd really want dozens of sims moving about outside my range of view.

[Tingeling]

New trailer posted by 1UP:

http://gamevideos.1up.com/video/id/23079

Again, no gameplay. It's just another video to show off the "snazzy" customisation you can do to your sims and their houses. I found it to be nauseating and dull.

[kiki]

Apologies if this is a re-hash already addressed in the thread, but isn't that the same as how it was for TS1? Cinematics only, no actual game play until the game was fully released?

[zherok]

New trailer posted by 1UP:

http://gamevideos.1up.com/video/id/23079

Again, no gameplay. It's just another video to show off the "snazzy" customisation you can do to your sims and their houses. I found it to be nauseating and dull.

For some reason the default link wouldn't work and I had to watch it in super high definition. Anyway...

I like the huge range of sliders for creating sims. I do think that's a great option, given that everyone in the original game had identical bodies, and more delicate facial adjustments required editing outside the game in Milkshape. As far as pure "content" goes yeah, that's a waste. I like the ability to paint cars, since bringing that closer to the user is more freedom, although every example they showed was shit. I'm hopeful that their "HAY GUYZ I JUST GOT PHOTOSHOP" wallpapers are a sign you aren't held back in the ability to create them, because most of the examples were atrocious.

Still, no gameplay is ugh. It's a game, not a platform for people who make crappy machinima.

[Kyna]

I don't think it'd be practical. EA seems to love micro transactions and selling the same stuff to you over and over again, but I think charging for the tools would be a move even they could recognize as poor. Charging for tools you previously gave away is bound to cause backlash, and reduce sales. Additionally it caps creation to some degree. You inhibit the community, which is for the most part producing completely free content for your game, for an expansion's worth of profit? Lastly, the Sims 2 and Spore are the most pirated games on the planet right now. You release an expansion that's pure tools, and you've just created the world's most pirated expansion without even trying.

Like Spore's Creature Creator?  EA charged for full access to that.  In Sims terms this was like charging for full access to Body Shop.  They tested the water with Spore's Creature Creator, to see if people would pay for tools (and people did).  Of course they're going to go further with charging for tools for Sims 3.  Sims players have proven we will buy anything with the sims name on it - even overpriced crappy store stuff.

From what I've heard they want to inhibit the community when it comes to creating content, and they fail to understand why this will be a VBT.  I've heard rumours that EA have done a deal with TSR to be a preferred partner site for TSR.  The rumour I've heard is that we will have to go to TSR (or other partner sites) to purchase any CC.  If this rumour is true, then it's a clear sign that EA don't understand that the success of the Sims franchise has been due in part to the wide availability of free CC & hacks.

[zherok]

The creature creator is the thing they released before the game, right? I think I tried the trial but it wouldn't run on my shitty 4200 Geforce 4. I've never played Spore so haven't really paid it much attention after release. To my understanding though the creature creator is included entirely with the game, yes? I think that's closer to EA knowing people will buy stupid preorder shit no matter what.

I can think of a worse example: Fable II had a preorder edition, which cost an additional $10. I think it netted you an early version of the casino games in the game itself. They're all heavy on luck and short on strategy. One is essentially slots. In addition to that, it included a code to unlock some small content in game. A weapon and some clothing located in a chest early on, and a dungeon later in the game. Except this code wasn't included in a lot of preorders. So what they inevitably had to do was set up an online request form, which only required you had a Windows Live account (and if you've ever set up Live! for either XBox, you've already got that). So I got the bulk of the limited edition content, because all it did was unlock content already present on EVERY SINGLE COPY of Fable II.

Live! in general has quite a few games where downloadable content that costs money is clearly just unlocking content you already have but has been purposefully hidden in order to charge you for it. EA has a somewhat notorious example with The Godfather. The 360 version removed in-game cheats that other versions contained, and offered them as pay for downloadable content. And then there's examples of them offering "weapons" in multiplayer games, effectively subsiding advantages in competitive first person shooters.

Still, if the extent of the matter is they charge for bodyshop 3 early, well, it's not a dealbreaker for me. I'd just arr it or pass it by. I don't think the average user is going to be creating groundbreaking content before the game is out. I'm sure most people don't have all that much stuff from 2004 in their download folder still anyway.

edit: I checked the discussion page of the wikipedia entry on the Sims 3, and found this tiny gameplay video. It's not actually that short, but the resolution is hard to make things out. So far it looks like the Sims 2 with slightly better models and floors that show regardless of what floor the camera is located on.

If you've got any solid links to those rumors Kyna I wouldn't mind reading them. I don't want to sound like I'm apologizing for EA or anything, but I am hopeful the game will turn out well. So far from what I have seen, which is very little, it does look great, although Spore did too, and I don't think anyone had that live up to their expectations. Either way it will without a doubt eat ram for breakfast, and dumb decisions will obviously be omni-present. I'm kinda leery about the focus on filming the thing. I don't play the game to upload shit to youtube, I just wanna play a game.

[Kyna]

Sorry, I don't have a bookmarked link, but I remember visiting the BBS recently and seeing a Maxoid mentioning "preferred partner sites".  I don't often visit the BBS, and I usually only go to the BBS when there's an interesting link posted here or at one of the other sims sites I visit.

The rumours I mentioned were not at the BBS, and were primarily speculation about what EA meant by "preferred partner sites" & who these preferred sites were.  Conclusion was that TSR was probably one of them.  Given that TSR is a paid CC site, it was speculated that TS3 CC will only be available through these preferred sites.

[zherok]

I think I saw that, something about the BBS not allowing links to the booty because of it hosting TSR/The Store content or something to that effect? I'm hoping that's just something limited to BBS retardedness, and the speculation beyond that is just rumors gone wild.

[Sigmund]

I think I saw that, something about the BBS not allowing links to the booty because of it hosting TSR/The Store content or something to that effect? I'm hoping that's just something limited to BBS retardedness, and the speculation beyond that is just rumors gone wild.

Well, the booty doesn't host store content, not that anybody on the BBS is necessarily intelligent enough to understand that. The idea of EA potentially pairing up with TSR is flat-out appalling. Not only would they be suppressing a huge amount of their community by saying "only the people we approve of are good enough to create custom content for your game!", but what about all the younger ages that play the Sims? There are plenty of 12s out there who certainly don't have money to go out and pay for new custom downloads, especially on top of the already fairly pricey game itself.

I certainly hope you're right about rumors gone wild. However, EA has grown increasingly money-grubbing recently, and every time I think they've hit rock bottom they find new lows to reach. 

[Kyna]

I think I saw that, something about the BBS not allowing links to the booty because of it hosting TSR/The Store content or something to that effect? I'm hoping that's just something limited to BBS retardedness, and the speculation beyond that is just rumors gone wild.

Why did you specifically mention TSR?  Do you know about a definite link between EA and TSR beyond the rumours I mentioned?

TSR are making an illegal profit by charging for CC, just like any other paysite.

[Liveangel]

I think I saw that, something about the BBS not allowing links to the booty because of it hosting TSR/The Store content or something to that effect?

Well, the booty doesn't host store content, not that anybody on the BBS is necessarily intelligent enough to understand that. The idea of EA potentially pairing up with TSR is flat-out appalling.

Didn't EA and TSR partner up for (now dead) EA Land?

http://www.moreawesomethanyou.com/smf/index.php/topic,10998.0.html