More realistic/difficult relationships?
Melanija:
Someone posted a harder relationships hack at MTS2 here: http://www.modthesims2.com/showthread.php?t=241232
It's probably less awesome than most, but it might be worth looking at to see how it works if anyone's still interested in making something like this. *shrugs*
pixiejuice:
I saw that. I'm about to try it out right now. I'll let you all know if it's any good.
Farsight:
Yeah, I'll have to try that one out as well - it implements some of the things I was thinking of. It sounds like the initial meetings of Sims should be far more varied, since those first chats won't skew so heavily towards a positive result. I
AutonomousCasualRomance also seems to do a pretty nice job of basing interactions on attractiveness more than just 'we had a nice chat - let's get married!'
I like MasterDinadan's idea of specific actions being required to boost relationships past a certain point. It makes me wonder if the following would work well:
1) Cap how much STR/LTR you can get from a specific action. For example, Chat might only be able to take you to 25/0 (side benefit: some of us might get to use the later Talk... options for the first time!). Friendly Hug might cap at 60/30. To gain a platonic friend, you'd need to Share Interests, Play, etc - Chat would -never- do it, since it would stop giving points at 25/0, and the passing of time would only take this to 25/25. To gain a Crush, you'd have to do more than Flirt/Charm, and to gain a Love, you'd have to do almost everything. :)
2) Change all interactions that currently succeed/fail based on STR/LTR to succeed/fail based on compatibility (likes/traits/chemistry for romance). ACR does this quite well for romantic actions based on an 'attractiveness' rating, so it's definitely possible. For example, Tickle might only require a compatibility rating of 10, while Friendly Hug requires a rating of 50. The exact stats and numbers to use would take a lot of tweaking/testing to decide. For added depth, things like mood (good mood = more accepting) and similar skill-levels (we're both Logical / we both hate Logic = more accepting) could be factored in to give additional ways to make two Sims more (or less) compatible through player actions. But the compatibility rating would determine the highest action a Sim would accept, determining the limits on their relationship.
As for Popularity/Romance Sims... well, life would get harder for them. :) But a simple "What do I think of...?" action to give a clue to compatibility before spending too much time getting to know them would help. I'd think the best way to implement such an action would be to have it return text describing how much potential for growth remains in the relationship. Like if you can still gain many STR/LTR points before hitting the cap, your Sim might say, "I'd like to get to know X better." But as you approach the cap, the text might change to "I don't think there's much more to know about X." So Popularity/Romance Sims could see if there's a potential for Best Friends from a brief encounter (chatting etc), while it might take a date or more to know whether the Sim is a potential Crush/Love. It could add benefits to Woohoo Wants using ACR, since they could avoid Loves and stick to more casual affairs. :)
So STR/LTR would be the -reward- for successful actions, not the determiner of whether those actions succeed. Escalating actions would be required to escalate the relationship - no best buds from phone calls or lovers from flirting and pecks on the cheek. And the characteristics of the individual Sims would determine 'compatibility', making relationships unique, and gaining friends and lovers challenging and rewarding.
J. M. Pescado:
Quote from: Farsight on 2007 July 26, 09:16:59
So STR/LTR would be the -reward- for successful actions, not the determiner of whether those actions succeed.
This logic unfortunately doesn't work, because if STR/LTR do nothing, then your sim is either implicitly friends or never will be.
Quote from: Farsight on 2007 July 26, 09:16:59
Escalating actions would be required to escalate the relationship - no best buds from phone calls or lovers from flirting and pecks on the cheek.
Well, best buds from phone calls doesn't happen unless it's already been set, as phone calls grant 0 LTR gain. The PRIMARY factor in LTR gain, in truth, is "cooking". You can observe this in the Stories games: You can't cook LTR, so it's all but impossible to get unless you bludgeon away it repetitively or use the Shades. The ability to "cook" LTR, whether you want to or not, is basically why sims always end up 100/100 best friends. I suspect that if this were simply taken away, the game would get much harder. Whether or not I'll opt to make such a thing depends on its compatibility with existing products.
Quote from: Farsight on 2007 July 26, 09:16:59
And the characteristics of the individual Sims would determine 'compatibility', making relationships unique, and gaining friends and lovers challenging and rewarding.
Actually, they wouldn't. If you discounted the "building" aspect of STR/LTR entirely, then friends/lovers/etc would effectively be preordained and predetermined.
Farsight:
Quote from: J. M. Pescado
This logic unfortunately doesn't work, because if STR/LTR do nothing, then your sim is either implicitly friends or never will be.
STR/LTR would still unlock new interactions, and determines friend/crush/bestfriends/lover status. It would be a progress meter - it's currently both a progress meter and the determining factor in success, which is just loony logic.
Quote
Well, best buds from phone calls doesn't happen unless it's already been set, as phone calls grant 0 LTR gain. The PRIMARY factor in LTR gain, in truth, is "cooking".
True. But the phone call allowing STR to go to 100 is what allows the "cooking" to push LTR to 100. So to remove that result, you can either (a) Remove "cooking", or (b) remove the ability for phone calls to push STR to 100.
Quote
I suspect that if this were simply taken away, the game would get much harder. Whether or not I'll opt to make such a thing depends on its compatibility with existing products.
I thought of that as a solution as well, but it still wouldn't address the silliness of lower-tier interactions maxing out relationships and invalidating higher-tier actions. Why risk Caress if Charm never fails? Why is a friendly hug enough to keep your spouse madly in love with you?
Capping how high each action can raise your STR/LTR would handle that, and make removing "cooking" unnecesarry. If you want to keep your wife at 100/100, you may have to 'satisfy' her now and then. :)
Quote
Actually, they wouldn't. If you discounted the "building" aspect of STR/LTR entirely, then friends/lovers/etc would effectively be preordained and predetermined.
Well, currently, it's predetermined that every relationship you put a tiny effort into (and most you don't) will be a raging success. In this system, some relationships will be successful, some will be doomed, and some will sit in-between.
As I said, some player-control could be achieved by factoring skill levels, chemistry and mood into the 'compatibility' numbers, since these are aspects that the player can modify:
"She likes hats? Gimme a hat, stat!"
"She loves Logic? I'd better play some chess!"
"Maybe I'd better wait to suggest a kiss until she's a bit less angry... or full platinum."
So the Sims' starting stats and Likes would a big factor, but those controllable aspects could be enough to push a "just friends" girl into a potential Lover.
Additionally, some randomness to interaction results could be added, so that borderline relationships could go either way, and would always be volatile. The result would still always trend towards the 'compatibility' number, but small random spikes in either direction would appear like spats or passion.
Of course, if one were to make a single Sim-relationship as volatile as the real thing, upon finishing the mod, the next step would likely be to reduce the numbers of friends/loves required by wants in the game. :) That said, I'd love to replace the tedium of grabbing 20 or 50 interchangable Sims and grinding out STR/LTR at no risk of failure, with something like 5 or 10 required relationships that involve searching for compatible Sims and hoping that your Chat leads to friendship or that she accepts that Flirt and it leads to love.
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