Crash on resized lots at 7PM -- any ideas?
baratron:
When I was talking about this on irc last night, Hook pointed out the problem is probably to do with the way the game displays shadows. Based on real world physics rather than knowledge of the game, wouldn't a shadow normally extend past the edges of the lot? This isn't something that would even normally occur to me, because my default graphics setup has shadows off. However, I wouldn't put it past the game to do the computations for displaying a shadow even if it then goes on to not display it!
Quote from: dizzy on 2007 November 04, 03:53:45
In my opinion, it would be far better if we could determine a way to overlap lots rather than put walls right up to the edge (given the flakiness of build mode).
My partner Richard came up with an idea which may help. Please forgive scanned-in bits of paper, I couldn't figure out how to create an image quickly enough using Adobe Photoshop Mickey Mouse Edition (a.k.a. Elements - it came free with my computer).
Richard suggested that we should not build lots with an overlapping or party wall shared between the houses. Instead, we should build the wall 2 squares in from the edge of the lot as usual. However - we could then use either a real wall or a fence that looks like wall along the front edge to give the idea of continuity.
Top-down views:
Corresponding front-on view:
The black lines show what the player sees, the blue line shows the true start of the house. The green shaded area is "limbo". It is probably ok to place objects into this area as we have done so for years, but players should be warned not to try to move the true walls. Also, placing windows into the true walls would spoil the illusion of terracing.
It definitely seems worth trying this idea, because it might avoid the problem. Consecutive lots would share only a vertex, not an actual edge of wall, and this might make the difference. Someone could try this with the Base Game Starter and the Lot Adjuster, and put their lot up for testing. Even if it doesn't work with real wall, it could be possible to do it with a fence that looks like wall.
Do we have fences that look like walls yet?
dizzy:
The problem with fake walls is that you'd also need a fake roof, and that would probably be beyond the scope of this project. :P
Zazazu:
So far, I've never had a crash on one of my lots with a space on every side, and I've never heard that anyone else has had a crash on them either. They don't look like a true townhouse set-up, but do look very much like what we have going on in my subhood (well, in most subhoods) in Chicago. And, of course, there is no graphical oddity on the shared walls. My next set will be a bunch of pseudo-colonials all with at least a 1-space cushion. Hummingbird Court/Queen's Cove is becoming very ecclectic:
pbox:
Quote from: baratron on 2007 November 05, 01:19:43
Do we have fences that look like walls yet?
Yes, fake walls do exist. See sticky in mts2 Build Mode forum for link. If you're happy using fences, you can completely ignore the whole shrinking business and do that, since they're allowed on the edge of lots anyway. Reasons I'm not happy using fences:
* You can't recolor them -- you'd need a clone for every single wallpaper you're using
* Fence colours are very difficult to match with wallpapers
* You can't stack them -- you'd need a separate clone for 1-, 2-, 3-, etc story houses, plus variants for every possible foundation height
* You can't put windows/doors in them -- this makes realistic building impossible; what kind of row house has a 4m party wall?
* Plus, what dizzy said .. roofs would still not work (although I believe there are some fake roofs at mts2, from the base game era)
So, yeah. Not really an alternative for me, personally, but ymmv.
Eta, another point: they don't collapse with the walls .. so they'd be horribly in the way during gameplay.
With "Consecutive lots would share only a vertex, not an actual edge of wall" you mean when the front and back walls go all the way, but the side walls are 2 tiles in from the border? That could be worth a try, yes. Then at least we could do something that *looks* like a row house.
Quote from: Doc Doofus on 2007 November 05, 00:39:24
Has anybody tried shrinking a lot that DOESN'T have walls at the edges?
This has come up in R+D a few times -- empty lots don't pose any problems it seems. But since, as you say, we already have Andi's mini lots, there's not much of a point in shrinking empty lots is there? (Actually, if I recall correctly, Andi created those more or less manually though, not by shrinking with the LE .. there is a post in the old LE thread @ mts2 that explains how. Hang on. Here: http://www.modthesims2.com/showthread.php?p=1376196#post1376196 -- I see no mention that he ever released a version with a shrinking feature. Pointer?)
Eta:
Quote from: baratron on 2007 November 05, 01:19:43
When I was talking about this on irc last night, Hook pointed out the problem is probably to do with the way the game displays shadows.
That might be a good point. Do you happen to have any idea whether turning shadows on/off in the options might make a difference? On the builder's side, the user's side, or both? Or does the game calculate them regardless (and fall over its feet), just not display them when they're turned off?
Doc Doofus:
Ah. I thought Andi made those with LE. At the time, people were saying you could skip the download package and just use LE.
I tried doing that, with mixed results. I ended up with one lot that had a huge gaping blue hole in the expanded side (as seen from neighborhood view), where apparently you could see the sky underneath the hood. Another one just borked the whole neighborhood. I had to manually delete the lot and keep my mouse cursor away from it thereafter. Those were commercial lots -- at the time OFB had just come out, and smaller lots were very attractive for people setting up very small businesses.
Andi's package works great.
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