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J. M. Pescado
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Seasons - Temperature Studies - Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, Over?
« on: 2007 March 10, 04:17:47 »
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First, a table of warmth deltas by uniform-type. The warmth delta is determined by a combination of sim uniform and outside temperature.

Indoors: Always +/-6 -> 0

Very Hot: Temperature >= 70
PT > 95:   +1
Everyday:  +4
Naked:     +3
Swim:      +3
Gym:       +4
Formal:    +5
PJ:        +4
Uniform:   +4
Underwear: +4
Outerwear: +8

Hot: Temperature >= 30
PT >= 70:  +0
Everyday:  +2
Naked:     +1
Swim:      +1
Gym:       +2
Formal:    +3
PJ:        +2
Uniform:   +2
Underwear: +1
Outerwear: +4

Moderate: |Temperature| < 30
Everyday:  +0 (+/-4 -> 0)
Naked:     -2 (> -29)
Swim:      -2 (> -29)
Gym:       +0 (+/-4 -> 0)
Formal:    +0 (+/-4 -> 0)
PJ:        -1 (> -29)
Uniform:   +0 (+/-4 -> 0)
Underwear: -2 (> -29)
Outerwear: +3 (< 29)

Cold: -30 <= Temperature < -70
PT <= 70:  -0
Everyday:  -4
Naked:     -8
Swim:      -6
Gym:       -4
Formal:    -2
PJ:        -5
Uniform:   -4
Underwear: -6
Outerwear: -2

Very Cold:
PT < -95:  -1
Everyday:  -6
Naked:     -12
Swim:      -10
Gym:       -6
Formal:    -4
PJ:        -7
Uniform:   -5
Underwear: -10
Outerwear: -4

Some interesting conclusions: First, in the absence of any helpful activities, it will take a sim literally over 12 hours to freeze while standing out in the freezing cold naked, in part because cold delta drops to -1 upon attaining -95, adding 5 hours to freeze time. Secondly, in Moderate temperature, you will actually cool to 0 faster in one of the +0 uniforms than standing around in your underwear. Very counterintuitive. In any case, clearly, the uniform worn has very little importance.

Next, facts on treadmill overheat: In an interesting quirk, only the outdoor temperature affects treadmill heating...even if the treadmill is indoors. This is a peculiar currently being addressed by an as-of-this-time in-development hack that may or may not become a public release, or perhaps confined to Director's Cut as a result of everyone and their dog messing with the same subject. No "Hot" interaction may push warmth over 85 (most cap out at less) unless outdoor temperature is >= 70 (by default, even if you are indoors). Similarly, no "Cold" interaction may push cold below -85 unless outdoor temperature <= -70. If you mess with snowmen when Outdoor Temp is <= -70, you will freeze faster than prancing about naked in the snow. Should this be changed?

More weirdness: At warmth >= 70, a sim has a high chance of spontaneous combustion at about 1% every 15 minutes to an hour, we're not entirely sure. Statistically, this means that it is all but certain. Current proposed change is that the combustion chance be lowered to 0.1% and the combustion temperature raised to 90 (impossible unless outdoors AND roasting), and very unlikely even then. At warmth <= -70, a sim has a 1% chance of spontaneously contracting the plague. In an exercise of extreme perversity, this chance rises to 5% for temperatures between 70 and -70. Where does this plague come from? Nobody knows. It certainly defies the presently accepted germ theory of disease. And none of these heat-and-cold things appear to make any use of commonly accepted laws of physics. Clearly science is not a Maxian strongpoint.
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Re: Seasons - Temperature Studies - Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, Over?
« Reply #1 on: 2007 March 10, 18:13:49 »
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Secondly, in Moderate temperature, you will actually cool to 0 faster in one of the +0 uniforms than standing around in your underwear. Very counterintuitive. In any case, clearly, the uniform worn has very little importance.

Counterintuitive, unless you're standing in direct sunlight of course.

If you mess with snowmen when Outdoor Temp is <= -70, you will freeze faster than prancing about naked in the snow. Should this be changed?

Making snowmen requires bodily contact with snow and even the best Maxian clothing is only slightly more protective than being naked, whereas prancing naked in the snow only causes you to lose a few toes.  Grin

Current proposed change is that the combustion chance be lowered to 0.1% and the combustion temperature raised to 90 (impossible unless outdoors AND roasting), and very unlikely even then.

+ 0.5% for exposure to Beauty Cocktail, Pepper Juice and/or Tomato Juice?
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Re: Seasons - Temperature Studies - Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, Over?
« Reply #2 on: 2007 March 11, 00:13:18 »
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Does being fat have any effect on heat? I would imagine the layer of fat insulates them.
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J. M. Pescado
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Re: Seasons - Temperature Studies - Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, Over?
« Reply #3 on: 2007 March 11, 00:31:08 »
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Does being fat have any effect on heat? I would imagine the layer of fat insulates them.
Why, that's an excellent idea. I'm glad I thought of it!
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Re: Seasons - Temperature Studies - Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, Over?
« Reply #4 on: 2007 March 11, 00:54:30 »
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You're welcome! Grin
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Re: Seasons - Temperature Studies - Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, Over?
« Reply #5 on: 2007 March 11, 08:40:54 »
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I would think that fat could insulate against the cold just fine, but might cause a sim to overheat faster in the summer.
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Re: Seasons - Temperature Studies - Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, Over?
« Reply #6 on: 2007 March 11, 08:54:43 »
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I would think that fat could insulate against the cold just fine, but might cause a sim to overheat faster in the summer.
That's the current implementation in testing, yes.
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Re: Seasons - Temperature Studies - Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, Over?
« Reply #7 on: 2007 March 11, 10:28:12 »
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So skinny, mid-range sims would cool faster than perhaps buff sims who would supposedly have good circulation and a protective layer of muscle?

I don't understand why formal outfits cause sims to heat up so much - the males in tuxes maybe, but females with bared shoulders etc shouldn't overheat.

What does 'PT > 95:' mean? What does the PT stand for?

Naked, underwear and swim values should be about the same; PJs, everyday and work uniforms should be around the same.

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J. M. Pescado
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Re: Seasons - Temperature Studies - Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, Over?
« Reply #8 on: 2007 March 11, 10:56:09 »
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I don't understand why formal outfits cause sims to heat up so much - the males in tuxes maybe, but females with bared shoulders etc shouldn't overheat.
See, that's the underlying flaw of, A: the unisex treatment of formal outfits, and B: The fact that warmth is determined by CATEGORY, instead of by type. Lots of outfits are categorized as both normal + formal, and those outfits become magically more warm when worn formally. If this had been determined by outfit instead of purely by class, all this could be avoided, and your sims could still freeze their asses off when wearing the never-to-be-sufficiently-accursed "bikini with heels" as an everyday. Male formalwear all seems to follow an established pattern, so the categorization works, but female outfits run the gamut from prancing about seminaked to even hotter and less pleasant.

What does 'PT > 95:' mean? What does the PT stand for?
PT, personal temperature, AKA warmth. Basically, your sim, if heated only by natural decay, will always last a minimum of 5 hours.

Naked, underwear and swim values should be about the same; PJs, everyday and work uniforms should be around the same.
For the most part, they roughly are. Note that pretty much the only time warmth/cold really even MATTERS is in "Very Hot" and "Very Cold" temperatures, as sim warmth will not drop below the relevant cutoffs at any given temperature range: Sims CAN'T freeze (except maybe very briefly due to capping bugs in the original code), UNLESS the outside temp is -70 or below. In fact, Blue is Beautiful: A sim turning blue from cold is a healthy color, because the chance of spontaneous plague contraction actually reduces when a sim is in the "freezing" range of <= -70. To be honest, we're not entirely sure WHAT is being modelled by the spontaneous plague. Sims can apparently contract the plague purely from being cold, and by cold, we mean "not on fire" (the chance of contracting the plague at >= 70 is 0, and is instead replaced with the impending fiery combustion), which violates the currently accepted germ theory of disease and apparently reverts us back to spontaneous generation. How Maxians can remain ignorant of the most important concept in currently accepted medical science is beyond me.
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Re: Seasons - Temperature Studies - Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, Over?
« Reply #9 on: 2007 March 11, 17:15:46 »
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To be honest, we're not entirely sure WHAT is being modelled by the spontaneous plague. Sims can apparently contract the plague purely from being cold, and by cold, we mean "not on fire" (the chance of contracting the plague at >= 70 is 0, and is instead replaced with the impending fiery combustion), which violates the currently accepted germ theory of disease and apparently reverts us back to spontaneous generation. How Maxians can remain ignorant of the most important concept in currently accepted medical science is beyond me.

So a sim is always at risk of either the plague or SHC?  Bizarre.

I suppose they were going for the traditional belief that being cold compromises the immune system, making one more likely to become ill, but overdid it as usual.
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Re: Seasons - Temperature Studies - Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, Over?
« Reply #10 on: 2007 March 11, 18:04:51 »
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How Maxians can remain ignorant of the most important concept in currently accepted medical science is beyond me.

Laziness. Same reason they *still* mostly make Edith modifications to work around their bizarrely stupid reliance on Edith.
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Re: Seasons - Temperature Studies - Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, Over?
« Reply #11 on: 2007 March 11, 23:11:52 »
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I suppose they were going for the traditional belief that being cold compromises the immune system, making one more likely to become ill, but overdid it as usual.
While this belief is true, this alone cannot actually give you the plague: You must also be EXPOSED to the plague, which simply doesn't happen standing around without anyone who has the plague around you. Plus it still doesn't match the given numbers, where being about to freeze from hypothermia REDUCES your chance of picking anything up. That behavior more closely models the effect of temperature on bacterial growth. In any case, the upcoming fix to be released Real Soon Now should correct both the silly belief in spontaneous generation and the blatantly incorrect modelling of cold on the immune system.
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Re: Seasons - Temperature Studies - Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, Over?
« Reply #12 on: 2007 March 13, 08:19:35 »
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Exposure or frostbite aren't trivial, so the sim should need bed rest to recover.  It's the contagious bit that doesn't make sense.  Maybe they were just too lazy to write a new illness with 0 contagiousness.  Could it be done that way?
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Re: Seasons - Temperature Studies - Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, Over?
« Reply #13 on: 2007 March 13, 08:50:34 »
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Exposure or frostbite aren't trivial, so the sim should need bed rest to recover.  It's the contagious bit that doesn't make sense.  Maybe they were just too lazy to write a new illness with 0 contagiousness.  Could it be done that way?
Well, thing is, sims don't get exposure or frostbite. No lost toes, nothing. Just the ordinary preexisting plague.
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Re: Seasons - Temperature Studies - Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, Over?
« Reply #14 on: 2007 March 13, 12:30:09 »
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Yes - I think they should have written a new, specific plague type for exposure with 0 contagiousness and energy drain as the main sympton.  Sunburn should be there at the other extreme as well.  They took a shortcut and linked to the code for cold/flu/whatever instead.  I just wondered if your fix could link it to a tailor-made plague with 0 CT.
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Re: Seasons - Temperature Studies - Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, Over?
« Reply #15 on: 2007 March 13, 12:34:24 »
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The odds would still be kinda screwed up and backwards by default, seeing as the game makes it MORE likely to get the plague when at a normal temperature range.
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Re: Seasons - Temperature Studies - Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, Over?
« Reply #16 on: 2007 March 13, 15:59:01 »
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Curious... does contracting the plague affect temperature at all?  As in... getting a fever and burning up... or the opposite, getting extreme chills or whatever is appropriate.

Ste
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Re: Seasons - Temperature Studies - Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, Over?
« Reply #17 on: 2007 March 14, 01:10:24 »
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The plague has no effect on temperature.
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Re: Seasons - Temperature Studies - Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, Over?
« Reply #18 on: 2007 March 17, 23:02:57 »
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I just read a fascinating story about a pair of sims who lived on the lawn for a year.  There's a screenshot of the adult, who's wearing only a custom swimsuit, studying in a snowstorm.  Is there any indication that custom clothing (created prior to Seasons) is responsible for her relative comfort?
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Re: Seasons - Temperature Studies - Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, Over?
« Reply #19 on: 2007 March 18, 04:59:57 »
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It has more to do with the values in the table: Outfit worn has little to no real effect on temperature. As long as outdoor temperature doesn't drop or rise to +/- 70, temperature is nearly entirely ignorable as sims will not naturally decay beyond that point and cannot go beyond +/- 85 due to activities, regardless of what they do. It can be at -50 and snowing, and sims can frolic about in the snow naked without any real harm.
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Re: Seasons - Temperature Studies - Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, Over?
« Reply #20 on: 2007 March 27, 20:15:09 »
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There's a blurb in the Prima guide about how the non-human, or "Occult" as the guide called it, sims have different internal temperature Max/Min's from regular sims.  Since I trust a TS2 Prima Guide about as far as I can throw a 1 ton boulder I thought I'd post it here for clarification.

Quoted from the guide:

Alien:  Max Temp  80 / Min Temp  -100
PlantSim:  Max Temp  50 / Min Temp  -100
Servo:  Max Temp 0 / Min Temp 0
Vampire:  Max Temp 100 / Min Temp -80
Werewolf:  Max Temp 100 / Min Temp -50
Zombie:  Max Temp 0 / Min Temp 0

So basically the guide is saying Aliens and Plantsims can't overheat, but can freeze.  Vampires and Werewolves can overheat, but can't freeze.  And Servos and Zombies can't overheat or freeze.

Is there any truth to this?  And what about sims that are mixed?  Like an Alien/Vampire/Zombie?
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Re: Seasons - Temperature Studies - Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, Over?
« Reply #21 on: 2007 March 28, 00:01:09 »
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Okay, so, the game can easily tell if a sim is a Plant, Werewolf, Zombie, Servo, or Vampire. But... alien? How would the game know that a sim is an alien? What defines it as an alien? Unlike the other types, 1/2 alien sims are not a special "type" of sim as far as the game's code is concered... are they? I'm just curious how the game is defining a sim as an alien.
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Re: Seasons - Temperature Studies - Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, Over?
« Reply #22 on: 2007 March 28, 00:15:48 »
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So basically the guide is saying Aliens and Plantsims can't overheat, but can freeze.  Vampires and Werewolves can overheat, but can't freeze.  And Servos and Zombies can't overheat or freeze.
L&P. All of that information is basically wrong. Zombies and vampires appear to be classified as the same. I believe werewolves and robots are simply completely unaffected by temperatures, and plantsims cannot overheat. *NO* "occult" (zombie/robot/werewolf/vampire/plants) can freeze OR pass out, although those which are not heat-capped can combust, and those which are not cold-capped can turn blue. Even those that *ARE* cold or heat capped can blue or combust by default, since the heat caps do not entirely work correctly.

Is there any truth to this?
Purely L&P.

And what about sims that are mixed?  Like an Alien/Vampire/Zombie?
Aliens have no special attributes. Mixed-classifications have a fixed order of precedence (I believe robot cap takes precedence over all others, dunno the rest). None of it really matters that much because the heat/cold caps don't entirely function and therefore have minimal effect and no "occult" sim can suffer the failure points of temperature.
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Re: Seasons - Temperature Studies - Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, Over?
« Reply #23 on: 2007 March 30, 06:18:40 »
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Does the wearing of hats and/or aspiration caps have any effect on tempurature?
I believe the game can classify hats that are cloned from hats since NL chemistry can tell the difference, right?
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Re: Seasons - Temperature Studies - Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, Over?
« Reply #24 on: 2007 March 30, 06:31:20 »
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Does the wearing of hats and/or aspiration caps have any effect on tempurature?
No.
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