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Author Topic: Motive Decay rates  (Read 36795 times)
J. M. Pescado
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Re: Motive Decay rates
« Reply #25 on: 2010 November 15, 00:42:20 »
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You should be able to focus on one family at a time AND have universal aging, and there are ways to make that possible.
The stock game is pretty much made to FORCE you into this path, by mutilating every sim you're not controlling actively RIGHT THIS VERY MOMENT, so you can never let go. There are even crazier schemes like "keystoning", but these are extremely counterintuitive and would confuse the living crap out of you.
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Re: Motive Decay rates
« Reply #26 on: 2010 November 15, 02:57:48 »
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Or, if you hate TS4-beta so much and think it should be like TS2, you could, you know, play TS2.

This is the single most annoying statement I've encountered on any sims forum.  I see it over and over again.  It drives me nuts.  Here's another way of looking at it:  TS4-beta has made vast improvements over every aspect of TS2, from CAS to careers to graphics to a lot of other things, but the problem is, despite all of this, I am unable to play TS4-beta in the way that I am accustomed to.  I am looking through the store window at this new and improved version of TS2 that I really want to try out, but it's for display purposes only.  Even so, I would be playing TS2 right now if I hadn't lost all my game data shortly after I installed TS4-beta.  I had 21 weeks worth of neighborhood story, and I am not about to start all over again from scratch. 
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Re: Motive Decay rates
« Reply #27 on: 2010 November 15, 03:12:16 »
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Or, if you hate TS4-beta so much and think it should be like TS2, you could, you know, play TS2.

This is the single most annoying statement I've encountered on any sims forum.  I see it over and over again.  It drives me nuts.  Here's another way of looking at it:  TS4-beta has made vast improvements over every aspect of TS2, from CAS to careers to graphics to a lot of other things, but the problem is, despite all of this, I am unable to play TS4-beta in the way that I am accustomed to.  I am looking through the store window at this new and improved version of TS2 that I really want to try out, but it's for display purposes only.  Even so, I would be playing TS2 right now if I hadn't lost all my game data shortly after I installed TS4-beta.  I had 21 weeks worth of neighborhood story, and I am not about to start all over again from scratch. 
Wait, there's already a beta of TS4?  Isn't it a bit early for that?  You know, like three years early?  And anyway, I agree that if you don't like TS3 or this so-called "beta," you should play TS2.  They are different games, and they are both good in their own way.  If you dislike one, there is nothing stopping you from playing the other.  Take it from me- I'm a confirmed Sims 2 fan.
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Re: Motive Decay rates
« Reply #28 on: 2010 November 16, 00:47:56 »
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Cwurts is calling TS3 "TS4-beta", Jebbuschrist. It's passive-aggressive shit. There is no TS4 Beta available.

TS2 was a sea change from TS1. I'm sure there were some people who saw TS2 as a bad change when it first came out, and even some to this day who prefer TS1. The same thing is true with TS3. For me, yeah, there are a lot of things I miss from TS2, especially the tighter control I had over promotions and OFB features. When TS3 first came out, I played for a few weeks and decided that while it was prettier and I liked the new CASt abilities, my fully-EP'ed, hacked, and cc'ed TS2 was vastly superior. It wasn't until right when WA came out that I tried TS3 again. And now, with a couple EPs in and a powerful awesomemod and plenty of crunchy Build mode cc, those things about TS2 that I missed...I still miss them, but not enough to outweigh those things I like in TS3.

TS2 and TS3 are different games. If, for you, the scale tips on the TS2 side, play TS2. Nothing wrong about that. Nothing wrong with missing features of TS2 (or TS1). But expecting TS3 to give you everything you had in TS2 with a prettier bow around it, that's a bit unreasonable. And seriously, that and your judgmental criticism of people who play differently from you make me think you're just a Negative Nellie.
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Re: Motive Decay rates
« Reply #29 on: 2010 November 16, 01:02:20 »
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Cwuntz is the guy who tries to play every family in his TS3 neighborhood simultaneously while bitching about how difficult it is to do so.  I think it's safe to assume he is insane.
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Re: Motive Decay rates
« Reply #30 on: 2010 November 16, 01:06:38 »
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Cwuntz is the guy who tries to play every family in his TS3 neighborhood simultaneously while bitching about how difficult it is to do so.  I think it's safe to assume he is insane.
Agreed.  I thought one of the selling points of TS3 was that YOU DON'T HAVE TO PLAY EVERY DAMN FAMBLY.
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Re: Motive Decay rates
« Reply #31 on: 2010 November 16, 03:02:40 »
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Cwuntz is the guy who tries to play every family in his TS3 neighborhood simultaneously while bitching about how difficult it is to do so.  I think it's safe to assume he is insane.
I play as many as 16 families simultaneously, using awesomemod's sacred feature to keep them from misbehaving too badly and a very simple rotation with aging turned on for only one family per rotation. It's not that difficult. In some ways, it's actually easier than TS2 because I can have freer interaction between the families and if I get sick of a particular household, I can just stop playing them and they'll maintain continuity.

A plan and a couple toggles every rotation is probably too much unfun work for Cwurts. Perhaps it is simply too confusing for his wittle bwain.
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Re: Motive Decay rates
« Reply #32 on: 2010 November 16, 10:35:24 »
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TS2 was a sea change from TS1.
Not really, mechanically, TS2 and TS1 are very similar. They even share a similar underlying language.

The same thing is true with TS3. For me, yeah, there are a lot of things I miss from TS2, especially the tighter control I had over promotions and OFB features.
You had tigher control over promotions in TS2? My understanding is that TS3 and TS2's promotionary system are more or less exactly the same: Fill bar, get promotion. The OFB "features" are not strictly necessary in TS3 because you no longer need to buy a community lot merely to be able to play it and save on it. Although the ability to run a business has evaporated, it wasn't really NECESSARY, anyway, and certainly not the most interesting use of OFB's lot features.
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Re: Motive Decay rates
« Reply #33 on: 2010 November 16, 19:58:57 »
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In my opinion, if you're going to call a game a sequel, it has to be a streamlined version of the same game, not "a different game".  My complaint is that some of the things they considered extraneous and left out were integral parts of gameplay, and that is something unbecoming of a sequel, in my opinion.
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Re: Motive Decay rates
« Reply #34 on: 2010 November 16, 22:26:51 »
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In my opinion, if you're going to call a game a sequel, it has to be a streamlined version of the same game, not "a different game". 

I was of the impression EAxis considered Sims 3 a prequel for Sims 2, so how does that fit into your thinking?
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Re: Motive Decay rates
« Reply #35 on: 2010 November 16, 23:00:18 »
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In my opinion, if you're going to call a game a sequel, it has to be a streamlined version of the same game, not "a different game".

That is the definition of a remake, not a sequel.
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Re: Motive Decay rates
« Reply #36 on: 2010 November 17, 00:38:26 »
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TS2 was a sea change from TS1.
Not really, mechanically, TS2 and TS1 are very similar. They even share a similar underlying language.
Coding perspective. I'm talking about a basic gameplay perspective. Looks were much different, sims aged, we could create our own neighborhoods. There were aspirations.

The same thing is true with TS3. For me, yeah, there are a lot of things I miss from TS2, especially the tighter control I had over promotions and OFB features.
You had tigher control over promotions in TS2? My understanding is that TS3 and TS2's promotionary system are more or less exactly the same: Fill bar, get promotion.
I could prevent the filling of a bar in TS2. If I didn't want a sim to get another promotion, I simply had to keep them one skill point shy. In TS3, even with a sim who has no relationship above acquaintance with their boss and coworkers and is well below the happy-face level for skills, eventually they will get a promotion if they keep showing up for work. No TS3 sim ever gets stuck at the lowest levels. Someone has to be a grunt.

The OFB "features" are not strictly necessary in TS3 because you no longer need to buy a community lot merely to be able to play it and save on it. Although the ability to run a business has evaporated, it wasn't really NECESSARY, anyway, and certainly not the most interesting use of OFB's lot features.
I ran a lot of stores, ticket businesses, and restaurants. I also designed logos and kitch specifically for them, adding to the uniqueness of my neighborhoods. It was a huge part of my revised BACC play and my own personal caste system, where only Business/Blue caste sims could own businesses, but since they were barred from any crafting activities that Creative/Orange caste sims could do, there was necessary mingling and cooperation between the castes.

I think we're slowly getting closer to some of the shinies we had with OFB, and though it will be a challenge to arrange in TS3's open neighborhood and true time, I think an OFB-like EP will eventually be released for TS3.
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Re: Motive Decay rates
« Reply #37 on: 2010 November 17, 00:56:49 »
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That is the definition of a remake, not a sequel.

Sure, in the movies.  In the gameworld, a sequel is a game that is redone with enhanced features and improved gameplay.  A remake would be called an 'emulator'.

I was of the impression EAxis considered Sims 3 a prequel for Sims 2, so how does that fit into your thinking?
.

If the term 'prequel' in this case extends beyond that of just the back story, then that would explain a lot, however, I question the logic of EA releasing the prequel of a game after the game it is prequeling.  It seems pretty shady and cash-grabbing to me.
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Re: Motive Decay rates
« Reply #38 on: 2010 November 17, 03:46:54 »
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That is the definition of a remake, not a sequel.
Sure, in the movies.  In the gameworld, a sequel is a game that is redone with enhanced features and improved gameplay.

Many people would argue that Sims 3 does have enhanced features and improved gameplay, thus making it a sequel.  But then again this definition of a sequel from you is different to your earlier definition
In my opinion, if you're going to call a game a sequel, it has to be a streamlined version of the same game, not "a different game".
Improved gameplay and enhanced features is not streamlining a game.  A streamlined version would be a version with extraneous crap removed making lighter and maybe faster.  The versions of TS2 which were released for the DS and other handheld gaming devices would be a streamlined version of the game.

A remake would be called an 'emulator'.

I disagree, I believe an emulator is used to simulate a particular environment, usually reserved for older games where the OS is either unavailable or non-existent, such as playing pac-man or donkey kong, those and many other older games will not play on a PC unless you run an emulator to create an environment the games will run in.
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Re: Motive Decay rates
« Reply #39 on: 2010 November 17, 04:45:32 »
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That is the definition of a remake, not a sequel.

Sure, in the movies.  In the gameworld, a sequel is a game that is redone with enhanced features and improved gameplay.  A remake would be called an 'emulator'.

You are stupid.

Give Jeromycraig a break.  He thought he was being helpful.
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Re: Motive Decay rates
« Reply #40 on: 2010 November 17, 05:37:51 »
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Oh look. It is trying to be funny.
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Re: Motive Decay rates
« Reply #41 on: 2010 November 17, 18:12:26 »
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Re: Motive Decay rates
« Reply #42 on: 2010 November 17, 20:20:14 »
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I dunno, cwuntz has a point - after all, the paradigm for sequels among commercial games is "this game, but more so" - generally some kind of generically new content is added, because otherwise it's hard to justify making a completely new game, but the major changes are all minor tweaks to the fundamental concept. Certain things which were problematic in the first game get adjusted to better suit the players, new features are added to improve the "depth" of gameplay, but it's still fundamentally the same game. Sometimes independent developers - especially those offering the games for free - will make major changes and tie the new game to the previous one only in terms of storyline, but it makes sense that companies like EA wouldn't kill the goose that lays the golden eggs, no? Still, by this definition, TS3 is a sequel, which is exactly what it's supposed to be, so I have no idea what he's whining about.

But no, an emulator isn't a remake; an emulator is more like "digitally remastered on DVD" and the like. A remake is... still called a remake - they are rarer in the video game world, but they do exist; the version of MULE that was played as a #grah game for a bit was a remake of the original, for example.
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Re: Motive Decay rates
« Reply #43 on: 2010 November 17, 20:31:48 »
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Only remakes in video games I can think of off the top of my head were the text based and bare bone pixels King's/Space/Police Quest games that got upgraded to the point and click VGA graphics. Oh, and the Pitch Black xbox to 360 remake. Which had a mini-sequel built in.

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Re: Motive Decay rates
« Reply #44 on: 2010 November 18, 02:13:34 »
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My point, in case it's not painfully obvious by now due to endless repetitiion, is that whereas a proper, well-done sequel matches its predecessor in every respect while surpassing it in many ways, TS3 did not live up to these expectations.  TS2 had story mode (the feature with pictures and captions) both in-game and online; EA found it prudent to have storytelling features online for TS3, but left it out of the actual game.  One has to exit the game, manually upload the photos, and piece it all together on the website.  This is a clear step backwards.  Then there's the universal aging.  In TS2, each family had its own game file, and remained safely tucked away (in stasis) while you played other families; in TS3, as you play one family, the AI has control over everyone else and makes them do things without your consent.  Unless you only ever play one family, this breaks the consistency of gameplay, so that you don't have full control over any of your families, and when you go back to them, they will never be in the same place you left them.  This problem gets worse the more families you are trying to control.  Some players are happy to relinquish control of some of their sims to the AI, but not everyone feels this way.  The game is sorely lacking for those of us who prefer to run multiple families AND have consistent control over them, and this violates the often repeated TS3 slogan "something for everybody."  Introducing universal aging was a bold move, and EA didn't implement it very well.  Instead of moving in a direction that reduced the variety of gameplay possible, they should have been more meticulous in their programming so as to include all forms of play that were possible in TS2.  It is like that thing about not shiitting on the pot or something like that - do it right or don't change it at all.
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Re: Motive Decay rates
« Reply #45 on: 2010 November 18, 02:36:16 »
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My point, in case it's not painfully obvious by now due to endless repetitiion, is that whereas a proper, well-done sequel matches its predecessor in every respect while surpassing it in many ways, TS3 did not live up to these expectations.  TS2 had story mode (the feature with pictures and captions) both in-game and online; EA found it prudent to have storytelling features online for TS3, but left it out of the actual game.  One has to exit the game, manually upload the photos, and piece it all together on the website.  This is a clear step backwards.  Then there's the universal aging.  In TS2, each family had its own game file, and remained safely tucked away (in stasis) while you played other families; in TS3, as you play one family, the AI has control over everyone else and makes them do things without your consent.  Unless you only ever play one family, this breaks the consistency of gameplay, so that you don't have full control over any of your families, and when you go back to them, they will never be in the same place you left them.  This problem gets worse the more families you are trying to control.  Some players are happy to relinquish control of some of their sims to the AI, but not everyone feels this way.  The game is sorely lacking for those of us who prefer to run multiple families AND have consistent control over them, and this violates the often repeated TS3 slogan "something for everybody."  Introducing universal aging was a bold move, and EA didn't implement it very well.  Instead of moving in a direction that reduced the variety of gameplay possible, they should have been more meticulous in their programming so as to include all forms of play that were possible in TS2.  It is like that thing about not shiitting on the pot or something like that - do it right or don't change it at all.
We get it, go play TS2. TS3 is a sequel, whether it lived up to your expectations or not.
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Re: Motive Decay rates
« Reply #46 on: 2010 November 18, 15:09:02 »
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My point, in case it's not painfully obvious by now due to endless repetitiion, is TS3 WAS SUPPOSED TO BE EXACTLY LIKE TS2, ONLY MOAR BETTERER!!!!11!!  *WHINE, WHINE, CRY, CRY*

FTFY.
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Re: Motive Decay rates
« Reply #47 on: 2010 November 19, 02:16:33 »
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My point, in case it's not painfully obvious by now due to endless repetitiion, is that whereas a proper, well-done sequel matches its predecessor in every respect while surpassing it in many ways, TS3 did not live up to these expectations.  TS2 had story mode (the feature with pictures and captions) both in-game and online; EA found it prudent to have storytelling features online for TS3, but left it out of the actual game.  One has to exit the game, manually upload the photos, and piece it all together on the website.  This is a clear step backwards.  Then there's the universal aging.  In TS2, each family had its own game file, and remained safely tucked away (in stasis) while you played other families; in TS3, as you play one family, the AI has control over everyone else and makes them do things without your consent.  Unless you only ever play one family, this breaks the consistency of gameplay, so that you don't have full control over any of your families, and when you go back to them, they will never be in the same place you left them.  This problem gets worse the more families you are trying to control.  Some players are happy to relinquish control of some of their sims to the AI, but not everyone feels this way.  The game is sorely lacking for those of us who prefer to run multiple families AND have consistent control over them, and this violates the often repeated TS3 slogan "something for everybody."  Introducing universal aging was a bold move, and EA didn't implement it very well.  Instead of moving in a direction that reduced the variety of gameplay possible, they should have been more meticulous in their programming so as to include all forms of play that were possible in TS2.  It is like that thing about not shiitting on the pot or something like that - do it right or don't change it at all.

Oh will you just shut the fuck up already, please.
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Re: Motive Decay rates
« Reply #48 on: 2010 November 19, 02:35:57 »
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tl;dr post cut
Your doctor called.  He said to go back on your OCD meds.
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