So anyone else not so happy about the new lifetime aspiration thing in FT?

[Count Four]

Now to get their stupid points, we have to take them all through this standardized life course - graduate, get married, have kids, max career, boring, boring, boring...

That's so intensely ... stupid. I'm losing enthusiasm for this EP and I don't even have it yet. (Considering some of the errors I'm reading about, I think I'll wait for the patch, if I get it at all.) I can imagine ignoring all these life miles stones, just like I ignore permaplating.

I wouldn't mind seeing a Family sim have some wants other than MAKBABEEZ though.

[MistyBlue]

Or you can just let the sims run their course through life, ignoring the aspiration shit and be done with it. If they get bonuses, good, if they don't, tough. Life doesn't always have to be perfect in Simland.

[doren]

Well, I love the secondary aspiration, though I also wish it played some part in chemistry which it doesn't seem to. 

But the new lifetime aspiration bar is very very disappointing.  I like that they earn benefit points, and the rewards they can choose from aren't bad either, but it's just the way they earn them.  Like what does a romance or pleasure sim care about getting married, having babies, or graduating college?  I thought it would count up the wants that made sense to the sim, like 10 1st dates, or 10 loves, or whatever.  This does nothing to encourage a variety of gameplay, but does the opposite instead.  Now to get their stupid points, we have to take them all through this standardized life course - graduate, get married, have kids, max career, boring, boring, boring...

I agree. They missed the opportunity for more individuality/variety, the more so when you start to think strategically about the benefit points. For example:
The couple I played is a combination of knowledge (her) and family (him). Both these aspirations require that you choose a benefit "slower comfort/fun decay" to get to the other benefits, which is bad for a start since with a filled up a fun bar many of the hobby actions are stopped instantly. The same when you choose the benefits from the motives panel, where you have to use 4 benefit points to reach the slower energy decay.

Therefore, instead of choosing a secondary aspiration, which you consider suitable for them or which would make them more compatible, it makes more sense to pick a secondary aspiration like romance or popularity, because you get slower energy/hygiene decay with only two benefit points.  I sent them to town for a few hours to check how many new neighbours came with this EP, and the wife, Mary, had a massive energy/hygiene drop (it is winter), so this benefit would be very useful for her.
I have another couple and it was mainly for them that I wished for a secondary aspiration. They are very special to me and I do not want to tamper with them too much, though I wish they had a better chemistry (she is popularity/he is family). So the idea was - especially since they have four children together - to give her a secondary family aspiration. Now family does not have any great benefits (more twins?!! No, thanks I get enough of them) and when I checked, the chemistry between them had not changed (I did not save). On the other hand if I choose romance (an aspiration which does not go well with family) and the first benefit from it, she would get a higher chemistry with her family orientated husband I guess.
As far as the wants are concerned: I did not get any hobby related wants, but if they would get wants related to the secondary aspiration I would not notice a difference. I can't understand why they try to sell it as a new feature. My sims never ever only got wants related to their aspiration, actually with some its the opposite. Family sims (especially female) who never get the wish to get engaged or marry, knowledge sims who get a lot of woohoo wants, fortune sims who are really into skill building etc. etc.

[jolrei]

Or you can just let the sims run their course through life, ignoring the aspiration shit and be done with it. If they get bonuses, good, if they don't, tough. Life doesn't always have to be perfect in Simland.

I used to give my sims such marvellous little lives - good grades, nice spouses, kids, houses, top jobs, plat gravestones, etc.  They lacked for nothing.  They were dead boring.

A sim with unfulfilled desires is a lulzy sim.  Ignore the straight path.

[Kyna]

I'm not seeing any real bonus to secondary aspiration. The motive decay differences must be quite minor. For my Knowledge-Romance, his girlfriend has started doing the ZOMG ROMANCE SIM! swoon, but he doesn't have any non-Knowledge wants. Of course, he's crammed with hobby wants (mostly sports, sports, and more sports) so they could just be getting stomped.

I am seeing some non-knowledge wants with my knowledge/pleasure sim.  He's got wants to go on a date, go to a community lot, and to juggle.  And a good thing too, since those knowledge sims are so hard to keep happy with their wanting to just sit around skilling all the time.  But then there are other sims that I'm not seeing mixed wants with.  It probably has something to do with what's going on in the household at the time too.  Like the family couple I'm playing now just had a baby grow up to toddler, so those toddler training wants are trumping everything else that might otherwise be there.

I've been giving non-knowledge sims knowledge as a secondary aspiration as I find the skilling wants the easiest to fill - and I was going to make them skill up anyway.  They've been rolling up to earn the next level of the skill they gained a point in, so are rolling up typical knowledge sim wants.

[Tchan]

I find it really hard to get my sims to permaplat. I think I've only ever gained it once. This may be a joy, maybe not.

[sloppyhousewife]

I was pretty relieved to see that you don't *need* to choose a second aspiration. I assign it only to sims that will never get their 1st aspiration wants (family sims), so they'll finally roll wants I'm willing to fulfill, or skilled-out knowledge sims, as they roll romance wants anyway, so why not making them "real" romance sims and get the benefits .

[Liz]

(snip) My sims never ever only got wants related to their aspiration, actually with some its the opposite. Family sims (especially female) who never get the wish to get engaged or marry, knowledge sims who get a lot of woohoo wants, fortune sims who are really into skill building etc. etc.

My "fortunes" have traditionally been very into skill-building, provided it's for the points they need to earn a promotion (whoot big bonus yay moneez). Or if they earn some cash from a creative pursuit (sell a painting, tips from faux-rapping or performing an instrument), they'll often want to get another Creativity point. It's also very common for my "knowledges" who've maxed their skills and/or reached their job-related LTW to turn to their family as a source of rewarding wants. "Hey, I have a son; teach stuffz! Ooh, I have a wife; yay, sexpoints!" Actually, Knowledges are pretty famous for their horndoggity tendencies. I do love seeing those Family sims who don't want to get married or what have you, though - or who couldn't be less interested in teaching their kids how to talk. Always a refreshing treat! (^_-)

[Giggy]

For me personally

Play-throughs = No
Challenges = Yes

Perma plat sims in challenges are easier as it's a common strategy in the Apocalypse challenge. While the Asylum challenge makes it compulsory so it's used regularly in my game.
I'm one of those people that are also peev'd because there's no more LTWs and also request a hack for them to come back.

[J. M. Pescado]

But the new lifetime aspiration bar is very very disappointing.  I like that they earn benefit points, and the rewards they can choose from aren't bad either, but it's just the way they earn them.  Like what does a romance or pleasure sim care about getting married, having babies, or graduating college?  I thought it would count up the wants that made sense to the sim, like 10 1st dates, or 10 loves, or whatever.  This does nothing to encourage a variety of gameplay, but does the opposite instead.  Now to get their stupid points, we have to take them all through this standardized life course - graduate, get married, have kids, max career, boring, boring, boring...

Well, you do get a useful boost for the milestones, but there is also a continuous benefit just for maintaining high aspiration, which also adds to the bar.

I agree. They missed the opportunity for more individuality/variety, the more so when you start to think strategically about the benefit points.

Indivduality and variety kinda go out the window when you start thinking strategically about real life, too. Reality can be gamed just like any other game.

The couple I played is a combination of knowledge (her) and family (him). Both these aspirations require that you choose a benefit "slower comfort/fun decay" to get to the other benefits, which is bad for a start since with a filled up a fun bar many of the hobby actions are stopped instantly. The same when you choose the benefits from the motives panel, where you have to use 4 benefit points to reach the slower energy decay.

The ADHD effect can be countered by using Macro Concentrate in combination with noadhd. As soon as I get to actually TRYING most of those things, I'll start developing bigger, better, anti-ADHD systems.

[doren]

Like what does a romance or pleasure sim care about getting married, having babies, or graduating college?  This does nothing to encourage a variety of gameplay, but does the opposite instead. 

Well, you do get a useful boost for the milestones, but there is also a continuous benefit just for maintaining high aspiration, which also adds to the bar.

It still doesn't make sense that they get benefit points for something they never wanted. With regard to the new lifetime bar all sims are the same.

I agree. They missed the opportunity for more individuality/variety, the more so when you start to think strategically about the benefit points.

Indivduality and variety kinda go out the window when you start thinking strategically about real life, too. Reality can be gamed just like any other game.[/quote]

Do people ever do think strategically about real life? It reminds me of a conversation I had with a lawyer I work for, who had to fill in a form about a secondment, which included the question which goals he had set forth for himself and hoped to achieve with it. I never met anybody who sits at home in the evening drawing a little chart with a three-month-plan, formulating specific goals. If I did I would probably consider this person slightly disturbed but it would definitely be a highly individual approach.

Both these aspirations require that you choose a benefit "slower comfort/fun decay" to get to the other benefits, which is bad for a start since with a filled up a fun bar many of the hobby actions are stopped instantly.

The ADHD effect can be countered by using Macro Concentrate in combination with noadhd. As soon as I get to actually TRYING most of those things, I'll start developing bigger, better, anti-ADHD systems.
[/quote]
It might not work as planned (and can be annoying) but I believe that it is intentional that the hobby activities are not continued for any length of time. It could be meant to encourage the player to bring the sims to a level where they go into the zone. When they max out their enthusiasm for a hobby "they are so passionate about it that they forget everything around them". In that state there is a slower motive decay, but the main feature seems to be that they continue an activity without stopping.

[Jelenedra]

I could be wrong. It depends on if tinkering on the busted car is energy draining, but I noticed that my popularity/romance sim had a much smaller energy decay than my straight up fortune sim. (I had him focus more on the work bonuses).

[pixiejuice]

Well, you do get a useful boost for the milestones, but there is also a continuous benefit just for maintaining high aspiration, which also adds to the bar.

Cool, I didn't know that.  At least there's something then. 

It still doesn't make sense that they get benefit points for something they never wanted.

Yes, exactly. 

ETA:  Okay, I just did a little math, and according to the info posted in the War Room, even if they never gain a single event boost, a Sim who leads a reasonably happy life would still have enough points to fill the bar before elderhood, and that's fine by me.  Not that I want them all to fill up their bars, but just as long as they can carry on doing the things they want to do and be rewarded for it.  Slightly less disappointed now    

[Buchignani]

Do people ever do think strategically about real life? It reminds me of a conversation I had with a lawyer I work for, who had to fill in a form about a secondment, which included the question which goals he had set forth for himself and hoped to achieve with it. I never met anybody who sits at home in the evening drawing a little chart with a three-month-plan, formulating specific goals. If I did I would probably consider this person slightly disturbed but it would definitely be a highly individual approach.

Really? If you don't plan, set goals and figure out how to and work to achieve them, you're living your life "acted upon" (responsive) instead of "acting". My parents were famous for 5-year plans (3 months is a bit short for RL, IMO) and whenever things seem to be going off-track in my family or for my (grown) daughter, we discuss what we need for a new 5-year-plan and where we are and how we're moving (and do we still want) the last one. I'm surprised you've never met anyone else who prefers goal-oriented action to waiting until life throws something at them to respond.

[Rebochan]

How often does the bar fill for just keeping up a generally high aspiration?  Does having a gold or platinum aspiration affect it differently?

[KnowitallSim]

So, there won't be a hack incoming? I really dislike the new bar.

[Stagefrenzy]

Do people ever do think strategically about real life? It reminds me of a conversation I had with a lawyer I work for, who had to fill in a form about a secondment, which included the question which goals he had set forth for himself and hoped to achieve with it. I never met anybody who sits at home in the evening drawing a little chart with a three-month-plan, formulating specific goals. If I did I would probably consider this person slightly disturbed but it would definitely be a highly individual approach.

Really? If you don't plan, set goals and figure out how to and work to achieve them, you're living your life "acted upon" (responsive) instead of "acting". My parents were famous for 5-year plans (3 months is a bit short for RL, IMO) and whenever things seem to be going off-track in my family or for my (grown) daughter, we discuss what we need for a new 5-year-plan and where we are and how we're moving (and do we still want) the last one. I'm surprised you've never met anyone else who prefers goal-oriented action to waiting until life throws something at them to respond.

The Five year plans worked great for Soviet Russia

[mildlydisguised]

In Soviet Russia, five year plans organise you!

[doren]

In Soviet Russia, five year plans organise you!

Not necessarily. I recently learned that in East Germany they used to have "Plansilvester", which was the day when the quota from the plan was achieved and workers began to work towards a bonus payment. While it might have been possible to reach it by November, it was risky because it could lead to the quota being raised for the next year. On the other hand if you did too late you got less bonus payment. Therefore they organised their work so that the quota would be achieved around christmas. I could imagine that workers in Soviet Russia made similar provisions.

Back to the sims lifetime meter:
Keeping the aspiration up increases it, but it does not seem to be directly connected to the wishes. I sent Mary-Sue and Daniel Pleasant on a holiday and while he (on perma-plat) got a message saying that it was a fantastic week, Mary-Sue (mixed green-gold) got one saying it was a good. She had more holiday-related wants and fulfilled more than he did. His life time meter is filled up one notch more than hers now.

I understand that once it is maxed out you get all the benefits, but otherwise it sounds like the benefit points are awarded only for the milestones and not for reaching a certain level on the lifetime meter. It will take some playing to find out.

[doren]

Do people ever do think strategically about real life? It reminds me of a conversation I had with a lawyer I work for, who had to fill in a form about a secondment, which included the question which goals he had set forth for himself and hoped to achieve with it. I never met anybody who sits at home in the evening drawing a little chart with a three-month-plan, formulating specific goals. If I did I would probably consider this person slightly disturbed but it would definitely be a highly individual approach.

Really? If you don't plan, set goals and figure out how to and work to achieve them, you're living your life "acted upon" (responsive) instead of "acting". My parents were famous for 5-year plans (3 months is a bit short for RL, IMO) and whenever things seem to be going off-track in my family or for my (grown) daughter, we discuss what we need for a new 5-year-plan and where we are and how we're moving (and do we still want) the last one. I'm surprised you've never met anyone else who prefers goal-oriented action to waiting until life throws something at them to respond.

"Active, goal-orientated" sound so much better than "acted upon, responsive", doesn't it? And yet, I ask myself, unless you are following rigidly (which would be, well.. rigid), if you discover in the fourth year that you headed in the wrong direction what advantage do you have over someone without a plan? 
I love it how life has been throwing things at me as they were needed. Plus all the decisions which probably appeared unreasonable at the time and worked in my favour in the end. It substantially increased my optimism about life and myself. On the other hand my goal might just be as vague as "cultivate my character and discover and learn as much about the world as possible". Hard to tell. Could also be "guarantee financial security so I don't have to beg with the social services when I'm old."

[funnykid]

I hate how the new bar is the same colour as the influence meter. Even worse, they are right beside each other. As other reviews (i.e. IGN, etc.) have said, the interface is starting to get really cluttered. They could have grouped the seasons/life stage/clock together and made tabs (like with the needs tab, personality tab, etc. to free up space!

[Ellatrue]

I used to always make sure that they had an LTW that could be fulfilled by the time they were half-way through "adult".  This was when I was young and though total happiness was wonderful (about 3 months ago).  Permaplat sims have nothing to aspire to, and no need to fulfil wants to stay happy.  They are directionless happy-drones suitable only for power-idling, cleaning, and baby care.  In short, they are functional furniture and about as interesting as the white basic maxis chair.

Now that I have reached this enlightened stage, I give all my sims the least attainable goal.  Family sims aspire to marry off 6 children (and are limited to having 2).  Knowledge sims with the "max 7 skills" LTW are permitted to follow their main wants (which are all about woohooing the person standing next to them anyway).  Any sim with a career LTW is streamed into an entirely different career.

Sims who want a golden anniversary get to fulfill it.  After all, they've earned it by that point (and they're elders anyway who function well as happy-drones).

Make it harder in FT, and I'll probably still want to make it even less possible.

Bah. They'll aspire to what I want them to aspire to. Screw their stupid wants!

[madamejeanie]

Well, I love the secondary aspiration, though I also wish it played some part in chemistry which it doesn't seem to. 

But the new lifetime aspiration bar is very very disappointing.  I like that they earn benefit points, and the rewards they can choose from aren't bad either, but it's just the way they earn them.  Like what does a romance or pleasure sim care about getting married, having babies, or graduating college?  I thought it would count up the wants that made sense to the sim, like 10 1st dates, or 10 loves, or whatever.  This does nothing to encourage a variety of gameplay, but does the opposite instead.  Now to get their stupid points, we have to take them all through this standardized life course - graduate, get married, have kids, max career, boring, boring, boring...

I really should have known it was too good to be true.  But who knows, maybe someone awesome could mod it to be the way it should be

I haven't had a chance to test it out yet though, but I was hoping that fulfilling fears would subtract lifetime points.  I don't think it does.

Well, I am disappointed if that's the way it works, too.  I haven't bought FT yet (they were sold out locally when I went to get it this weekend) but I hope to before the week is out.  I've been really looking forward to the secondary aspiration and I still think I'll probably enjoy it, because I probably don't play the game the way EAxis intended it to be played anyway.  Very few of my sims have ever gone perma-plat and that's not likely to change now, but I don't understand the wants/fears not being tied to at least one of the aspirations.  What's the point of having an aspiration, then?  Seems silly to me.

And, I'm surprised that the secondary aspiration doesn't affect chemistry, since the main one does.

[Process Denied]

It is my experience, that I will never play any neighborhood but Pleasantview or occationally Veronaville.  So I made an extra copy of my neighborhood and put all my hacks back in( most of them have been updated).  I was surprised that all my Perma-Plat Sims are still  Perma-Plat.  I thought that it would be taken away.  I guess it only sucks for newcomers.  JM--- you are certainly awesome for how fast you update mods.  Two thumbs up!!!

[Zazazu]

I had one go permaplat upon installing FT who should not have been. Celestina had the want to have 2 children graduate from college. One was in college, the other was still a child. When I entered the house after FT, she was permaplat with a want to reach the top of the Slacker career.