Hurricane Katrina
witch:
Quote from: SimsHost on 2005 September 10, 18:49:53
I have my notions about how to fix it. Basically, we could pay a minimum living stipend to everybody whether they need it or not, and raise taxes to balance it out; but that silly idea would never get past the legislature in any country that has popular elections. It would offend conservatives because of the idea of Big Welfare and even higher taxes; it would offend liberals because it cuts them off from the opportunities for demogoguery that get them elected; and it would offend everybody because the idea of paying welfare benefits to rich folks really goes against the grain.
I like the idea immediately because of course it would mean women at home looking after children, where they are not on a benefit, will be paid for the work they do. They (you know, they, the grey people) talked here a while back of having a universal benefit rate, for sickness, disability, solo parents, old age etc. Then individuals could appply for additional benefits as required eg medical or accomodation or children or whatever. The universal rate was supposed to be big enough to live on by itself. I thought that wasn't a bad idea but I never thought of applying it to everyone. I'll have to give this some consideration.
Judecat:
"They" are going to give everyone a stipend worth at least the cost of living? Where are "They" gonna get the money to do this. If "They" are gonna support me they why should I even get a job?.
"Give everybody a living stipend whether they need it or not, then take any money they earned that they don't need? I'll leave out the very rich here. I'll use my mother in law, my self and the last two posters to this thread and JM.
So if Dr Furth, who makes $125 dollars an hour is gonna get a government stipend of the same amount as Jude, and JM and witch and veilchen, but then they are gonna take away most of her money so they can afford the others, then why doesn't Dr Furth just retire. After all the government is giving her enough to live on. She can even sell her house and office and move to an apartment so she won't have taxes to pay next year. Oh geeze mom, you can't do that, Me and the the others was counting on your taxes to pay our stipend next year. Too bad, guess "they" just have to cut the payments down a little. Geeze looks like JM's gotta get a job to pay for more barbed wire. OOPs. JM we gotta take you your earnings to support Jude, witch, Veilchen and Dr Furth. etc etc and so one and so one, until everyone figures they don't wanna work to support everyone else, there is no money in the budget for anybody. Sounds to me like the last years of the Soviet Union to me. I know very few people who are busting there butt for the sole reason of personal satisfaction. So maybe it would work with another(alien) race, but I don't see socialism or communism working for human beings.
ZephyrZodiac:
I'm sorry, but you have, to my mind, an odd idea of what communism or socialism is about. It isn't about nobody working, but initially it was about everybody working, and everybody's job, from the dustman to the doctor, being of equal importance to society! And they didn't have many stay-at-home mums in the Soviet Union, but they did have universal daycare!
In the last days of the Soviet Union, no doubt these ideals began to fall apart as the crooks took over, but that tends to be what happens when empires disintegrate!
Judecat:
Any system that tries to equalize the wealth and to say that everyone is exactly equal is a dis- instentive to work. Soviet Union collapsed in on itself, and China is enforcing communism at gun point. Under communism it isn't that everyone shares equally, it's that everything is owned by the state. So no matter what you do in life you will get no more than the government chooses to give you.
And I do think that every attempt to equalize wealth in this country has only succeeded in driving up prices and killing the middle class. (You raise my taxes for welfare and social security, then I have less money to buy that cool car, and all the workers in the refrigerator factory feel the same way, so we go on strike for higher wages, which raises the price of refrigerators, so then the iron works go on strike because now they need more money to buy a new refridgerator. End result, my husband can barely support a wife person, on 6 x's the income my father supported a family of 6. Or the same house my mother bought for 8,000 dollars sold last year for $102,000)
I honestly can't say anything about Socialism, because you are right I don't understand. I'm not trying to be rude by this question, I really want to know -- what exactly is the difference between socialism and welfare.
(Not talking about socialized medicine, I understand that -- but if the insurance industry hadn't driven up prices I don't think socialized medicine would be necessary- only cost $30 dollars for a 4 day stay and a tonsilectomy when I was 4. Without insurance. If you worked in some big factories you'd be able to buy insurance and then you only had to pay 5 for the hospital bill. But the insurance company would only pay $15 more to keep costs down. Of course this drove up the price of hospital stays.)
And I gotta say, I much prefer discussing and debating with you all than in a lot of other groups online. No one is calling anyone else a moron or nothing. Exept JM that is. I'd run and hide if he stopped insulting everyone.
laeshanin:
Judecat, you're quite right in saying that Communism or Marxism doesn't work - just read George Orwell and you'll see why...people are greedy, and they always want more - whether that be power, goods, land or money. Those political systems are an ideology but ones that many very good ideas can be taken. Can the same thing be said of the extreme right, however? I personally have doubts if there is anything good about the extreme right, unless, of course, someone is an out and out bigot that feeds on prejudice.
Socialism is a system where by we get to make certain that the people at the bottom end of the social ladder are assisted, and that is the operative word - assistance. When I was destitute and homeless, there was never any occasion that I wanted to be nannied or taken care of. What choices I make are my own and I am the person that likes to make them about my life. I don't need some jumped up little beaurocrat to tell me how to live my life or what I have to do to improve it. I will, though, willingly pay in a small amount of money if it means that someone gets a better chance at life. Isn't that what some of my taxes are for (I'm a Brit, so things are slightly different)? Welfare and socialism are not synonymus. Welfare is a socialist idea, but it is not one that decides you shouldn't work, or help yourself.
Z.Z. says, quite rightly, that in Socialism all jobs are seen as equal. And they are, with the possible exception of those who act for a living, or sports people on phenomenal and obscene salaries. Without a dustman, society would be up shit ( :D) creek good and proper. Just because the job is less glamorous than those mentioned previously does not make it less important. Some jobs are undervalued in the society we live in, and it is that which gives me a pain in the butt.
She has a point, too, that when the Soviet Union fell apart the people who leapt in to take over were the crooks, those super capitalists who want to screw everybody... even you comrade. And that is what I hate about modern capitalist societies.
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