Sims 4 Annoyance & Problem Thread.
J. M. Pescado:
Quote from: Basura on 2014 December 04, 11:55:30
Specifically, if you were forced to eat salad for a week, wouldn't you want to eat something else? It's fine if there are sims with a trait where they're obsessed about food and want to cook and eat all day, but that shouldn't mean the rest of the sims would never want to cook or eat.
I dunno, man. My eating habits are straightforward: Today, raw meat. Day after tomorrow: Raw meat. Always raw meat. All the time. I never really get tired of this.
As for sims not specifically having wants for things that are actually critical to survival, I don't think the want system is normally meant to be quite that pushy. It's not meant as a minute-to-minute walkthrough of things your sim needs.
I'm sure that at some point when the game becomes worth getting and playing, I will go on a smackdown crusade of all the things that annoy me, though.
Salomon:
Quote from: J. M. Pescado on 2014 December 04, 12:00:30
My eating habits are straightforward: Today, raw meat. Day after tomorrow: Raw meat. Always raw meat. All the time. I never really get tired of this.
But if you were on TS4, then only YOU would want to eat raw meat, and only sims with the
raw meat treat (if it existed) would ever have a whim to eat it. My claim would be, that all sims, no matter their traits (unless there was some "dislikes raw meat" treat) should now and then want to eat some raw meat. But they will never do it (paraphrasing: having a trait there that makes it want to only eat raw meat: GOOD. The existence of that trait meaning that only sims with that trait may ever want to eat raw meat: BAD).
It's like the "dance to stereo music" whim that currently every happy sim rolls (there's so few variance that I keep giving the same example), if only sims with the "loves music" trait were able to whim it, it'd be an annoyance ("you don't have the loves music treat? it should mean you hate music"), and this applies to the trait-centric whims, which should happen more often with compatible traits, not disappear entirely with incompatible ones.
Quote from: J. M. Pescado on 2014 December 04, 12:00:30
It's not meant as a minute-to-minute walkthrough of things your sim needs.
It kind of is with the new emotional system. At least the first whim, which is always tied to the sim's current emotion, which can change minute-to-minute. So on bad emotions you get a whim related to that emotion, except it may not be related to fixing the need that is causing the bad emotion (I downloaded a mod that makes sims have the Dazed emotion when they have low energy, so at least they wish to take a nap, as opposed to going like "YAWN! I'm in a very bad emotional state because I'm SO tired!... I know! What if I took a bath?")
Also, I think the game is worth getting and playing already, as long as someone else goes through all the hassle to getting it. I was originally planning on passing too, but then a friend arrived to my house and told me he had already downloaded the thing, so I went and installed it, and despite the problems it's fun to play. I bet if THIS was TS2 (with TS2 and TS3 not appearing at all), people would be loving it. It's when compared to TS2 and TS3 when it feels so barren and empty, so there are so many things still to do in those other games that going through the hassle of downloading and installing TS4 just for curiosity doesn't feel worth it.
But if one woke up and it was already installed in one's computer ready to launch, what would one lose checking it out?
J. M. Pescado:
Quote from: Basura on 2014 December 04, 12:30:46
But if you were on TS4, then only YOU would want to eat raw meat, and only sims with the
raw meat treat (if it existed) would ever have a whim to eat it. My claim would be, that all sims, no matter their traits (unless there was some "dislikes raw meat" treat) should now and then want to eat some raw meat. But they will never do it (paraphrasing: having a trait there that makes it want to only eat raw meat: GOOD. The existence of that trait meaning that only sims with that trait may ever want to eat raw meat: BAD).
Your proposal simply creates the opposite situation: That every sim in the entire universe will desire to shovel any weird thing they come across into their mouths at random, which is even more annoying than the situation where only sims that actually give a shit about the subject ever want it. I, for one, have no desire to ever do a very large number of things.
Quote from: Basura on 2014 December 04, 12:30:46
It's like the "dance to stereo music" whim that currently every happy sim rolls (there's so few variance that I keep giving the same example), if only sims with the "loves music" trait were able to whim it, it'd be an annoyance
No, I'm pretty sure that's the annoyance, that EVERY SINGLE SIM EVER reacts exactly the same way.
Quote from: Basura on 2014 December 04, 12:30:46
("you don't have the loves music treat? it should mean you hate music"), and this applies to the trait-centric whims, which should happen more often with compatible traits, not disappear entirely with incompatible ones.
I think you're seeing this slightly differently from what I see it. The way *I* see it, if a sim doesn't roll a want for something, he is simply indifferent to it. If the action is forbidden or harmful to him specifically, he hates it. Therefore, the way *I* see it, in your example, every single sim in the universe is a dancing fool.
We see a similar annoyance, only you see a failure to roll a want as an active hatred of something, whereas I see rolling the want as a fixation on said thing.
Quote from: Basura on 2014 December 04, 12:30:46
Also, I think the game is worth getting and playing already, as long as someone else goes through all the hassle to getting it. I was originally planning on passing too, but then a friend arrived to my house and told me he had already downloaded the thing, so I went and installed it, and despite the problems it's fun to play. I bet if THIS was TS2 (with TS2 and TS3 not appearing at all), people would be loving it. It's when compared to TS2 and TS3 when it feels so barren and empty, so there are so many things still to do in those other games that going through the hassle of downloading and installing TS4 just for curiosity doesn't feel worth it.
Of course. That's why I'm choosing to sit on it, rather than reject outright.
Quote from: Basura on 2014 December 04, 12:30:46
But if one woke up and it was already installed in one's computer ready to launch, what would one lose checking it out?
A significant amount of time and disk space, apparently. The important thing is that I don't have to check it out. I have you people to do this for me, and the verdict is that while it's okay on its own, it fails to presently stack up against what is already there, so for now I am going to focus on what I already have, rather than trying to put out a raft of mods that will then be mangled in the next patch or expansion. From what I learned in TS2 and TS3, it's best to see how exactly expansions and patches will affect the process before committing.
There's a reason why this site is the sole origin of obscure Sims utilities pertaining to patching that nobody else would really care to use (hackdiff, dificil). I made them specifically for my own usage, because the process is otherwise THAT ONEROUS. Of course, the latter one has a number of creative misuses as well, like core-mod merging.
Salomon:
Quote from: J. M. Pescado on 2014 December 04, 12:46:01
Your proposal simply creates the opposite situation:
I'm looking for a common ground, some point in the middle where you don't have most sims being dancing fools (increasing the appearance of other traits would help with the stereo one appearing less often) but where it doesn't disappear entirely from their whims, ever (which would make them more likely to roll the rest of few whims, leading to even less variance. Presumably, they'd become "wants to know new people" wishing machines, unless they have the Loner trait).
Quote from: J. M. Pescado on 2014 December 04, 12:46:01
I, for one, have no desire to ever do a very large number of things.
I guess if it was there and your sim only got the "wants to eat raw meat" when happy, and was made happy when eating raw meat, leading to a vicious cycle of raw meat and happiness and the sim only doing it all day if the player keeps fulfilling whisms, it'd be okay? Because, that'd be like a raw mean eating fool not different from the dancing ones, and I think the only way to combat this is with variety.
The thing with whims is sims will get fixated with something, a solution where each unique sim gets fixated to a different thing doesn't sound interesting to me, as that would lead one to just have a sim doing the same thing over and over (but a different thing from other sims!) which sounds like grinding. Getting a given sim "whimming" for 20% of stuff available depending on their traits and emotion would be very cool, would be from 20 to 200 times more interesting than how it's now.
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My closing comments about whether it's worth it to get TS4, I say, get it if you get bored of TS2 and TS3. Some people will never get bored (there's always something new to do, which is the point of open-ended games) so they would only get it when there's actual full content to see. Though I can say despite its huge holes it's more fun to play than vanilla TS2 or vanilla TS3 (heck, it may be more fun than TS2+Pets) that's about it and its disadvantages when compared to the fully "expansionated" previous versions are insurmountable.
Will continue reporting (I play TS4 so you don't have to!) but I don't think there's anything else that hasn't been said in the thread. I'm looking forward to seeing someone complain about something new.
J. M. Pescado:
Quote from: Basura on 2014 December 04, 13:59:02
I guess if it was there and your sim only got the "wants to eat raw meat" when happy, and was made happy when eating raw meat, leading to a vicious cycle of raw meat and happiness and the sim only doing it all day if the player keeps fulfilling whisms, it'd be okay? Because, that'd be like a raw mean eating fool not different from the dancing ones, and I think the only way to combat this is with variety.
Honestly? A single sim being obsessed with a singular specific thing that is NOT like what other sims are obsessed with is way better than EVERYONE being obsessed with the SAME things. At least The Carnivore has character. So yes, I actually would prefer for everyone to get stuck in a different rut over everyone being stuck in the same one. A single individual sim fixated on a single individually unique thing still has character. Sims that are generic and fixate on the same boring shit everyone else does, flipping randomly from meaningless trash to meaningless trash...has no character at all. I actually produced this effect in TS2, where I had a sim that was basically a violent drunk based on its wants.
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