Crash on resized lots at 7PM -- any ideas?
pbox:
Quote from: Doc Doofus on 2007 November 04, 00:29:28
CONSISTENTLY, if I tweak the lot in build-mode from the neighborhood BEFORE moving in a Sim, ANY sim, I have experienced no problem. Not me. I'm using unpatched BV. I have only experimented with your Backdoor 42 lot and with my own designed shrunken lots.
I like consistency. Of course, your results may vary, but I hope not.
I don't have BV, so I can't test this myself .. however, other BV users (namely ladykatsim) do crash with their own lots, so I wouldn't think this can be used as a general recipe.
It seems to work like you say for Simsample:
Quote from: Simsample on 2007 October 29, 21:47:19
(..) And if I save the game, it doesn't crash (..) I can consistently reproduce a 7PM crash in the Pbox lots with or without hacks/ mods/ custom content, but only with CAS sims and unsaved lots.
and in a similar fashion for baratron, only that she has up to Pets only (no BV).
Rascal also does not have BV (up to Seasons), and for her it does *not* work:
Quote from: Rascal on 2007 October 30, 03:23:28
The very first crash I had was on Plasticbox's Backdoor 42. I didn't install the invisible driveway or the staircase as I have different versions of both these things already in my game. Before I moved any sims in I entered the lot in buildmode, changed the staircase and recoloured the driveway and saved the lot. So I have managed to get a crash on a lot that was altered and saved in buildmode prior to moving in sims.
So, yeah. I for one can't conclude anything from that. I just hope that for you it's really as consistent as it looks like.
Quote from: Doc Doofus on 2007 November 04, 00:29:28
Quote from: Baratron
Could someone who understands the way the game works please confirm whether it is possible for it to be confused enough to randomly open another Neighbourhood and write into that?
I'm reluctant to say never, but it is EXTREMELY unlikely to ever happen that a document in another program could be corrupted by an array index problem. (..) Since the Word program has a separate memory space, it would take something far, far more catastrophic than a Sims 2 crash to do that.
baratron isn't asking about Word, but about other TS2 hoods. (Like anyone here would care about Word files ..)
ladykat:
Quote from: Zazazu on 2007 November 03, 17:22:43
All this focus on roofs being on the edge being the issue feels wrong. The only lot of mine I've gotten to crash consistently is my 1x1 brownstone, unreleased. It doesn't have a roof in the traditional sense. I never used the roofing tool. It's a multi-level floored surface.
If anyone wants to test it, here's the link: http://www.4shared.com/file/28206022/94ab3616/Corner_A.html (requires all EP)
I got it, but I haven't looked at it yet.
I tried something out to see if roofs could make a difference. I built a house on a 3x3 lot but didn't put any roof on it at all. atthat point I saved and put it onto the lot bin. I then made 4 versions, one with no roof, one with a floor for a roof, one with gables at the sides, one with gables at the front. I shrunk all versions to 1x2.
I made 4 blocks, each with 3 houses of the same roof type. I put CAS sims in the left hand and middle of each sort, with no crashes, and finally I put CAS sims in the other end of each sort and played them through several days. Not one of those 12 houses crashed. I can't see that the roof can be causing the crashes, certainly not alone anyway.
A couple of days ago just about every house I did crashed, now they aren't, and the only difference I can see is that right now I don't have even the few downloads I had before!
kat
Doc Doofus:
Quote
(pbox quoting rascal):Before I moved any sims in I entered the lot in buildmode, changed the staircase and recoloured the driveway and saved the lot.
Well, as I said, I changed the roof pattern (and the color of the roof sides) That might be a significant difference.
Rascal, if you're up to it, please try it again: Backdoor 42. Repaint and change the roof tile pattern in build mode, save, then move in a CAS Sim and wait for 7pm.
pbox:
Quote from: baratron on 2007 November 03, 23:27:08
So I'm really quite worried about the potential for bugginess from the game writing to the wrong part of memory getting into the wrong Neighbourhood file, and corrupting one that I actually care about. Anything can happen to N005, but I've worked hard on N004 and don't want it corrupted.
Actually, I think the easiest thing you can do to make sure your other hood is safe in situations like this, would be to simply move the entire N004 folder to the desktop before starting the game.
Quote from: Doc Doofus on 2007 November 04, 02:25:04
Rascal, if you're up to it, please try it again: Backdoor 42. Repaint and change the roof tile pattern in build mode, save, then move in a CAS Sim and wait for 7pm.
Unless I am totally misunderstanding what dizzy said: the problem we're facing is not that it's crashing. The problem is that the game is trying to write stuff where it shouldn't, or read stuff that doesn't exist, and the only thing stopping it at the moment is the OS. This is REGARDLESS of whether or not you see any crashes.
To reiterate:
Quote from: dizzy on 2007 November 03, 08:40:21
I'm saying it's probably unsafe. If the index (-192 in my case) is coming from the lot data itself, you may be able to do something about it, but this value changes in different instances of the crashing. In some cases, it's the multiplier (81 in this instance) overflowing (the value 19496 in one of pbox's logs). In either case, it's the same EIP, so this suggests to me that the errant value is being calculated. In other words, the bad offset is probably not coming straight out of the lot file, but rather as a result of a miscalculation because of the walls and their situation.
If you are not getting the error, it is not safe to assume that this miscalculation isn't occurring. In fact, you may well be corrupting valuable data (highly likely, considering the visible corruption of shadows and such at the outset).
Right now, I don't see what we could learn from more in-game testing. Because if he's right, the goal is not to prevent crashes -- the goal is to prevent things going wrong like this in the first place. And you can't see that from within the game.
Maybe there'll be an updated version of the LotExpander that handles off-lot objects differently, or does something else in a different way, or someone writes a fix: then it makes sense to make some new lots and test them, in order to see how it all behaves in-game. Until then, in my opinion the entire shrinking business is ONLY for people who do this in a throwaway neighbourhood that they're prepared to see blow up at any point.
The whole thing is a bit like moving sims between hoods, in my eyes, or deleting all characters: there is no indication that anything's wrong, until it goes all pear-shaped.
dizzy:
In my opinion, it would be far better if we could determine a way to overlap lots rather than put walls right up to the edge (given the flakiness of build mode).
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