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Author Topic: Why do so many people's male sims look like women?  (Read 69398 times)
OpiumGirl
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Why do so many people's male sims look like women?
« on: 2006 November 17, 00:56:15 »
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Now, I have NO problem with female looking males....But, I'm wondering if anyone can offer any theories as to why exactly almost every male sim created by a woman (especially @ MTS) looks like a woman.  I'm actually just wondering about the psychology behind it.
THere's nothing else in the world I've noticed that is quite like this phenomenon in the sims world.

Overall, I look at it as a good thing since it seems that this (hopefully) means an openness to gayness..But, why the sim world of all places?

My tentative theory is that perhaps many woman who play the sims now have the ability to play house and dress up boys however they like...but, that's really the only theory that seems viable to me.

Any psychologists in the room??


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Nivaya
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Re: Why do so many people's male sims look like women?
« Reply #1 on: 2006 November 17, 01:00:05 »
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I'm guessing it's that whole anime/bishounen thing, and making sims look proper many rugged sometimes results in fugly genetics...
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OpiumGirl
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Re: Why do so many people's male sims look like women?
« Reply #2 on: 2006 November 17, 01:12:46 »
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Perhaps, but in my game I've found that mixing manliness with a women's genes often looks far better.  The anime theory is a good one, though.
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Tamha
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Re: Why do so many people's male sims look like women?
« Reply #3 on: 2006 November 17, 01:32:23 »
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A lot of the most rabid creators (like the ones who get insulted if you ask them to morph one of their "male" styles to female) are women obessed with yaoi/shonen-ai. They can get heavy with the PMS, and are best avoided or tip-toed around! Wink I admit I do like the occasional fem guy in my Sims, but I mostly make average Joes. (Besides, facial hair is one of my turn-ons, and that just doesn't look right on a bishonen!)
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Re: Why do so many people's male sims look like women?
« Reply #4 on: 2006 November 17, 02:22:39 »
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I've noticed this, and I don't particularly like the way they look myself. I mean, having some guy Sims that look like they wear make-up or something wouldn't bother me, but there's definitely a major lacking of manly Sims. Especially custom hairs that would qualify as that, even though there are admittedly less masculine styles able to be made, probably. I'm a bit inexperienced when it comes to genetics that end up looking good myself, so I couldn't say if they came out looking a bit townie-esque myself.

 The guys in game definitely have mild wrinkles, too. I used to be bothered by it, so I just altered all the skintones so that they had a teen Sim's skin on his face instead. I don't remember if it gave them weird color match ups or anything, but it definitely would do for elders.
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LauraW
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Re: Why do so many people's male sims look like women?
« Reply #5 on: 2006 November 17, 03:11:38 »
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I don't really like the feminine males. I only download ones that look at least a little more rugged..but then that is my personal taste. I have never really been interested in pretty boys. Give me a guy with a few wrinkles and a 4 o'clock shadow and I am happy. Smiley
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Re: Why do so many people's male sims look like women?
« Reply #6 on: 2006 November 17, 03:28:00 »
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It's the whole bishi thing. You'll find it in almost any online community with women sharing images that they've either created or like. I've seen it in an Everquest art community and I've seen it in the 'casting call' pictures people choose for thier characters in roleplaying communities.

To a certain degree, I think it is also associated with the "Women like thinking about gay sex while Men like thinking about lesbian sex." It's just something not everyone expects to see.
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OpiumGirl
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Re: Why do so many people's male sims look like women?
« Reply #7 on: 2006 November 17, 04:09:29 »
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To a certain degree, I think it is also associated with the "Women like thinking about gay sex while Men like thinking about lesbian sex." It's just something not everyone expects to see.

That's a very good point!  I hadn't thought of that...
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Re: Why do so many people's male sims look like women?
« Reply #8 on: 2006 November 17, 06:30:06 »
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I think there's an element of women being attracted to feminine faces, but I also think it has to do with so many of the standard male face templates being so hideous.

Look at Monkey in my avatar - he's not girly-looking, but from some angles he's definitely gorilla-looking.
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Tamha
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Re: Why do so many people's male sims look like women?
« Reply #9 on: 2006 November 17, 06:43:35 »
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But Mungo and Addy look so cute together in that picture!
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Re: Why do so many people's male sims look like women?
« Reply #10 on: 2006 November 17, 06:57:38 »
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That's because you can't see his profile.
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Gwill
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Re: Why do so many people's male sims look like women?
« Reply #11 on: 2006 November 17, 09:05:56 »
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I think it mostly has to do with beautiful features being easier to make than handsome features.
A beautiful face basically just needs to be symetrical and evenly proportioned, and since sims are symetrical by default...  Rugged handsomeness is about being ugly in small and perfectly placed amounts; that's hard to get right.

I used to have a theory that women could be either sexy or beautiful to be attractive, while men had the option to be cute, beautiful or handsome, and you pretty much have to be a Maxis CAS face template to not fall into any of those three.
Maybe I'm just bitter because I'm "cute" at best...
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Re: Why do so many people's male sims look like women?
« Reply #12 on: 2006 November 17, 09:07:58 »
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It's because so many girls think pretty boys are hot(myself included), not always just to do with anime. I hate hairy muscular men, then agian Im bi, so maybe that has something to do with it
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Re: Why do so many people's male sims look like women?
« Reply #13 on: 2006 November 17, 10:19:43 »
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Because Rohina is the only one saying it, I'm going to back this up.

Just as it's easier for a girl to be good-looking than a guy is, it's easier to make a good-looking feminine face than a good-looking masculine one.  That probably explains a lot of bishou even before you have to ask questions about poly count inherent to any video game environment.  So lots of modders, especially if they like using the newest custom content (either to fine-tune coloration or just to try out their newest makeup) will go for the feminine styles that go well with most things.

What gets me more are the lack of non-Maxis, non-over the top plain faces.  Sometimes what I'm really looking for is someone plain or even a little awkwards to fill out my neighborhood, and they all tend to gravitate to the same maxian templates.
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mkir
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Re: Why do so many people's male sims look like women?
« Reply #14 on: 2006 November 17, 10:36:40 »
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Sometimes what I'm really looking for is someone plain or even a little awkwards to fill out my neighborhood, and they all tend to gravitate to the same maxian templates.

Insim.net has a quite a few sims based on the bodybuilder meshes, and there's at least one person (of course, name escapes me now, and I'm at work, so I can't search) who makes rather manly sims, and even had an awkward middle-aged guy who'd gotten rather thick in the middle and has a red nose from drinking too much.
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Kaliban
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Re: Why do so many people's male sims look like women?
« Reply #15 on: 2006 November 17, 10:44:57 »
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To a certain degree, I think it is also associated with the "Women like thinking about gay sex while Men like thinking about lesbian sex." It's just something not everyone expects to see.

What follows is only a rapid theory. It surely will be dumbly written, part because my english is really rusted, part because I try not to use "technical terminology".

"playing" - or creating - a sim means you can "incarnate" in it.
You "project yourself" in it, you animate it by "putting" inside a part of your attention/emotions, etc.
We could represent like the "possession" of the sim by the player (like in the exorcist:) )

The more the "animated" object seems "familiar" or "desirable", the easier it is to animate it.
Mainly, the process of "projecting yourself in some object" is easier when you can "identify" yourself with it.

It could partly explain the "self sim" effect: it is easier to invest yourself in your sim when you can recognize yourself in it.

But "identification" does not mean "perfect similitude to you". You can easily  "identify" to many different thing: a desired object, an object of fear, are easy to identify with.

"cross sexual identification" - the identification to a "person" of different gender - is not easy. gender difference is, for the human mind, something very mysterious - mainly because the body ( anatomically, but also on chemical level) and the personal history make it so that you can NEVER exactly know what it FEELS to be of another gender.

So, you have to "change" the sim to make it more easy to identify with.
A male with feminine traits will be easier to create/play for a woman, because he is "partly" woman: you can use the "woman" part as a firm ground, and concentrate on the remaining "male" parts.
"Acting" completely like a man would be "impossible", so the player has to only play "parts" of the male role.

(all of this is unconscious, or pre-conscious, it's an instinctive, uncontrolled behavior)

Men do exactly the same thing: it is impossible for us to "instinctively" act as woman (or at least we think it is), so our "women" sims often have many manly traits, in personality at least.
Or traits that men believe to be feminine.

The yaoi/gay love works on the same ground.
Pornography works if you identify with one of the "actors" or with the eye looking the scene.
As the other gender's body/sensation (or, in a more generic way, the body, feeling, sensations, of anyone but ourselves) are mysteries, a good part of pornography  is about trying to identify to the other gender, and participate in it's pleasure.
For men, it leads to lesbian fascination, but also to the "two men for a girl" thing,etc.

Mainly, in pornography as well as in sim creation/play, we have three opposed and complementary moves:
* try to understand what is different by focusing on what is similar (a man with feminine traits is partly understood, representation of the other gender experiencing known sexual sensations makes identification easier, etc)
* try to burninate the difference, reducing the "other" to something that is not different from you, or of what you think it is
* focus on the mystery

I know I am not clear - and anyway I am not sure it's podium material.

Anyway: everything we create (and playing is creating) comes from within us. We must use a "bit" of ourselves to sculpt our creations. So when we try to create something different from us, we have to use what we "dream"/"think we know"/"can understand" of what we are trying to create.  Or at least some tricks making our creation "not so different".
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Re: Why do so many people's male sims look like women?
« Reply #16 on: 2006 November 17, 11:14:44 »
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I once watched a documentary which looked into this area. It basically said women in the ovulating period tended to be attracted by more 'manly' men. Because of the instict to reproduce with the stronger more dominant types, and give your child the best chances of survival after birth and throughout their lives.
On the other days of the menstrual cycle, they tend to go for more softer lines of the face, less hairy, so more feminine-type faces, for the emotional type of guy, presumably.
At least that's what I remember about it. (Professor Robert Winston's Human body series I think-been a while)
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Re: Why do so many people's male sims look like women?
« Reply #17 on: 2006 November 17, 11:47:57 »
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i think that the ppl are looking alwasy for a real, or more textured, character...
on MTS2 the textured sims, on this last month are decuplicated... and now it a "way to made it"
It's logical, i think that the most ppl that made sims are girls and they never made a male like "HE MAN"

or like Adelmo Impestato
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Lana B
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Re: Why do so many people's male sims look like women?
« Reply #18 on: 2006 November 17, 11:54:38 »
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Girls yes. Specifically the 12 and under who have never ovulated.
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nekonoai
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Re: Why do so many people's male sims look like women?
« Reply #19 on: 2006 November 17, 13:19:44 »
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I once watched a documentary which looked into this area. It basically said women in the ovulating period tended to be attracted by more 'manly' men. Because of the instict to reproduce with the stronger more dominant types, and give your child the best chances of survival after birth and throughout their lives.
On the other days of the menstrual cycle, they tend to go for more softer lines of the face, less hairy, so more feminine-type faces, for the emotional type of guy, presumably.
At least that's what I remember about it. (Professor Robert Winston's Human body series I think-been a while)

I must be in a constant state of ovulation.  Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy I don't mind the pretty boy look. in boys and teens. But I'd really like to see creators try and make more rugged guys. Whenever I see one of those up, I immediately grab it, regardless of him being ugly or not. You gotta have a little ugly in the genepool to make life interesting. Cheesy
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Re: Why do so many people's male sims look like women?
« Reply #20 on: 2006 November 17, 15:07:33 »
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i think that the ppl are looking alwasy for a real, or more textured, character...
on MTS2 the textured sims, on this last month are decuplicated... and now it a "way to made it"
It's logical, i think that the most ppl that made sims are girls and they never made a male like "HE MAN"

or like Adelmo Impestato

Thanks!  Adelmo and his bro will be in my game soon!
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Re: Why do so many people's male sims look like women?
« Reply #21 on: 2006 November 17, 15:17:53 »
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I learned in my biological anthropology courses that each generation of male has successively more feminine features. The average current male facial structure resembles what the female facial structure looked like about 3 generations back. What women look like now, will be what men may look like in about 50-70 years if the trend continues.

Most of the anthropologists that I saw speak on the subject tended to think it was because women are unconsciously selecting to mate with men that are less "threatening." While they may at times be attracted to the "rugged" type, they tend to select men that are less physically threatening or able to hurt them. This is especially prevalent in the last century as "ruggedness" was no longer a good indicator that a man could provide. In fact, ruggedness is now being selected against, as more and more men are earning money in "soft" professions.

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Re: Why do so many people's male sims look like women?
« Reply #22 on: 2006 November 17, 15:20:25 »
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If you want to know the truth it's because, despite our fellow gamer's best efforts to make sims look as realistic as possible, they still always look like cartoons.  And let's face it... all cartoons look like girls.  Now if only all cartoons looked like Jessica Rabbit, how awesome would that be!

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Re: Why do so many people's male sims look like women?
« Reply #23 on: 2006 November 17, 15:24:35 »
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Thanks!  Adelmo and his bro will be in my game soon!

cool  Grin
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Re: Why do so many people's male sims look like women?
« Reply #24 on: 2006 November 17, 16:04:41 »
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I learned in my biological anthropology courses that each generation of male has successively more feminine features. The average current male facial structure resembles what the female facial structure looked like about 3 generations back. What women look like now, will be what men may look like in about 50-70 years if the trend continues.
So that's why all of my great-great-grandmothers looked like those old men I see hanging out at the laundromat.

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