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Author Topic: Macro Control: Macrotastics  (Read 401862 times)
J. M. Pescado
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Re: Macro Control: Macrotastics
« Reply #25 on: 2008 February 01, 09:00:39 »
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Oh, wow!  My servo, who went on a Far East vacation and learned to teleport, just teleported during a gardening macro!

Is that your doing? (I can't see EAxis being that smart)
Of course it is. EAxis can't even figure out that you need to MOVE TO THE DESTINATION before you can do anything, and would rather take 3 hours doing it. Never is this more apparent than in Castaways, where a sim can burn half a tank of gas just crossing the lot.

And if so, does that work for all special movements? (like vamp fly if the vamp can't run)
Vamp Fly is not used as a movement mode because it offers little or no speed benefit over walking. In some cases it is able to bypass interposing objects and fly through them, but for the most part this is not a movement mode that offers a real speed boost. As true ground-distance calculation is not something that can be easily performed using the tools available, we can't determine what benefit will be attained by utilizing the flight mode. As such, we only have a relatively crude heuristic estimate used to determine the movement mode to use.

Also, update on queue smashing:  So far the only thing I've seen do it is an employee quitting and that didn't happen the other night.  Can cranky customers crush queues?  Or maybe it was just a bizarre, one night only series of queue dropping...
Yes, cranky customers using the "Complain" Action can queuestomp.
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EsotericPolarBear
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Re: Macro Control: Macrotastics
« Reply #26 on: 2008 February 01, 09:37:22 »
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Of course it is. EAxis can't even figure out that you need to MOVE TO THE DESTINATION before you can do anything, and would rather take 3 hours doing it. Never is this more apparent than in Castaways, where a sim can burn half a tank of gas just crossing the lot.

haha, are those "stories" games really worth getting at all?  I haven't tried any of them.

Quote
Vamp Fly is not used as a movement mode because it offers little or no speed benefit over walking. In some cases it is able to bypass interposing objects and fly through them, but for the most part this is not a movement mode that offers a real speed boost. As true ground-distance calculation is not something that can be easily performed using the tools available, we can't determine what benefit will be attained by utilizing the flight mode. As such, we only have a relatively crude heuristic estimate used to determine the movement mode to use.

Any chance of increasing the flight speed to make it worth using?  It's just so damn cool!  Grin

Also, how do you (read: I) learn to do this stuff?  All the tutorials I've found basically say "there's no way to teach it, you just do it"  Undecided

Quote
Yes, cranky customers using the "Complain" Action can queuestomp.

That might be some of what caused it, then.  Still doesn't explain the bandatron businesses...but I guess it can't be too common if I only had it the few times the other night and nothing since.
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Re: Macro Control: Macrotastics
« Reply #27 on: 2008 February 02, 18:20:51 »
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Of course it is. EAxis can't even figure out that you need to MOVE TO THE DESTINATION before you can do anything, and would rather take 3 hours doing it. Never is this more apparent than in Castaways, where a sim can burn half a tank of gas just crossing the lot.

haha, are those "stories" games really worth getting at all?  I haven't tried any of them.
They are a cute concept. Not enough content to be worth paying for, and you won't want to play past the scenarios since you already have Sims2. Pescado ripped the special objects over in Playsets & Toys.
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Re: Macro Control: Macrotastics
« Reply #28 on: 2008 February 03, 20:53:28 »
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Is there anything I can get to make the macros repair local relationships the way they do the phone-ins with autoyak?
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Re: Macro Control: Macrotastics
« Reply #29 on: 2008 February 03, 21:06:36 »
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Macro...Socialize...Friendly...?
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Re: Macro Control: Macrotastics
« Reply #30 on: 2008 February 03, 21:15:44 »
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I meant without having to select each family member and do it.

Also, power idle doesn't socialize.

[edit] basically, I want to focus on one sim at a time without the others self-destructing.  I hate juggling.
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Re: Macro Control: Macrotastics
« Reply #31 on: 2008 February 03, 21:57:30 »
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Wow, you only have to click once on each family member to get them to talk until 100. How lazy can one get?
Need someone to play your game for you?
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Re: Macro Control: Macrotastics
« Reply #32 on: 2008 February 03, 22:39:19 »
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Wow, you only have to click once on each family member to get them to talk until 100. How lazy can one get?
Need someone to play your game for you?

Wow, you can't read.

I need the other family members to take care of themselves when I'm not using them. 

Let's see, if I have 4 family members, that means I have to socialize three people with the first one, two with the second and one with the last.  That's six times that I have to set it up to repair the relationship and then keep up with when they've stopped so I can move on to the next.

I don't like juggling sims.  I prefer to play one at a time.  The problem is, the others have a tendency to fall apart at the seams when I don't give them enough attention.  I wish they could maintain status quo without my interference.

So no, I don't want someone to play the game for me, I just don't like having to juggle eight needs on four sims, PLUS trying to skill up and badge up and accomplish other such things.  That's waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too much micromanagement.

Yes, I could use snapdragons all the time, but that feels lame.  At least with macros, it feels more like the stupid sims just aren't stupid...the needs still have to be filled, I just don't have to micromange it.  With snapdragons, I can completely ignore the needs altogether and that feels like cheating.

So, really, if I was lazy, I'd just use snapdragons all the time. Undecided
« Last Edit: 2008 February 03, 23:10:55 by EsotericPolarBear » Logged
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Re: Macro Control: Macrotastics
« Reply #33 on: 2008 February 03, 23:32:56 »
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How are their relationships getting damaged, if you have power idle on?  One of the benefits of power idle is that sims don't do things that are destructive to their relationships.

If you have 4 sims, it's really quite simple.  Sim A macro-socialises with Sim B, while C and D macro-socialise with each other.  Then when they're done, Sim A macro-socialises with Sim C, and B with D.  Then A macro-socialises with D, and B with C.  And you're done.

If you want some sims to take care of themselves while you micro-manage one or two sims, then put power idle on.  Sims will tend to their own needs*, and won't do anything stupid or destructive.  It also helps if you turn free will off - otherwise they'll lecture each other for breaking the shower or something like that, and this could cause them to drop out of power idle.  You can use macro/skillinate if you want them to learn skills or earn badges while you're ignoring them - again they will take care of their own needs.*

*Assuming you have the lot properly set up with Bathroom Uses You, something kickable for fun, and sleep clocks.
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Re: Macro Control: Macrotastics
« Reply #34 on: 2008 February 04, 01:02:06 »
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How are their relationships getting damaged, if you have power idle on?  One of the benefits of power idle is that sims don't do things that are destructive to their relationships.

1) Time

2) I should clarify, I partially want to repair the relationships because any other type of autosocializing would be counterintuitive and currently, power idle tends to ignore social need if you don't have a phone or friends with phones (and possibly if your friends are all at 100)...in any case, my sims are constantly getting visits from the social bunny, which is a queue stomper.

Quote
If you have 4 sims, it's really quite simple.  Sim A macro-socialises with Sim B, while C and D macro-socialise with each other.  Then when they're done, Sim A macro-socialises with Sim C, and B with D.  Then A macro-socialises with D, and B with C.  And you're done.

Yes, I can do the math.  But read that again and tell me it doesn't sound tedious. (not as tedious as manually socializing, granted, but tedious nonetheless)  I just wish this was part of power idle the way autoyak is.

Quote
If you want some sims to take care of themselves while you micro-manage one or two sims, then put power idle on.  Sims will tend to their own needs*, and won't do anything stupid or destructive.  It also helps if you turn free will off - otherwise they'll lecture each other for breaking the shower or something like that, and this could cause them to drop out of power idle.  You can use macro/skillinate if you want them to learn skills or earn badges while you're ignoring them - again they will take care of their own needs.*

Except social, apparently...which is what I'm talking about here.  Also, I've noticed the macros sometimes let needs get to critical levels and then get themselves queue stomped by the sim complaining about his/her/its needs.  This may be because I have cheap stuffs that don't fill needs quickly...which may not be a fault of the macro (except social, I'm totally blaming the macro for that)...but I haven't tested it with the high-end stuff because I'm a lazy ass that uses snapdragons by that point.

Quote
*Assuming you have the lot properly set up with Bathroom Uses You, something kickable for fun, and sleep clocks.

oh yeah, got all that.  Grin

Don't get me wrong, I love the macros...I'm just noticing some areas that to me seem like rather large omissions and am wondering if I'm missing something or if they just weren't included.

Really, I just hate the social need and relationship decay.  It's absurd.  I'm all for being able to damage relationships, but natural decay?  I don't see it.  I've never had someone call me up and say "we're not friends anymore because I haven't seen you in a couple weeks"  Tongue
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Re: Macro Control: Macrotastics
« Reply #35 on: 2008 February 04, 01:35:09 »
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2) I should clarify, I partially want to repair the relationships because any other type of autosocializing would be counterintuitive and currently, power idle tends to ignore social need if you don't have a phone or friends with phones (and possibly if your friends are all at 100)...in any case, my sims are constantly getting visits from the social bunny, which is a queue stomper.

Why no phones?  Phones are one of the things I give my sims as soon as I move them into a lot.  If social is a problem for your sims there are things you can do - sit them at a chess table together, or tell them to chat on the computer, or write in a diary, or send them to daydream on their beds, or send them to a community lot to socialise.  There are plenty of ways to gain social manually.  Or just let the social bunny come to fix their social, and then set them back to what they were doing.  Their social need will fill to halfway while the bunny is on the lot, while they get on with skilling or sleeping or whatever.

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Yes, I can do the math.  But read that again and tell me it doesn't sound tedious. (not as tedious as manually socializing, granted, but tedious nonetheless)  I just wish this was part of power idle the way autoyak is.

Sounds like you want macrotastics to have all of your sims in a household automatically make friends with each other.  I'm glad they don't - sometimes I want damaged relationships within a household for storyline purposes, and it would annoy the hell out of me if Pescado changed macrotastics so that sims automatically made friends with all other members of their household.  I want to be in control of who my sims befriend, I don't want to hand that control over to a macro.

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Except social, apparently...which is what I'm talking about here.  Also, I've noticed the macros sometimes let needs get to critical levels and then get themselves queue stomped by the sim complaining about his/her/its needs.  This may be because I have cheap stuffs that don't fill needs quickly...which may not be a fault of the macro (except social, I'm totally blaming the macro for that)...but I haven't tested it with the high-end stuff because I'm a lazy ass that uses snapdragons by that point.

Sounds like you need lesswhiny and/or dontwaveatme (I forget which one it is).  Stops them complaining about their needs.  I wouldn't worry too much about the needs being critical.  The only critical need combination that can be deadly if left to macrotastics is critical sleep + critical hunger.  So long as you don't let that combination happen, then macrotastics will handle the rest (apart from social, as you noted).  Macrotastics is an aid to playing your game, it isn't meant to replace you playing the game, and you do need to keep an occasional eye on your sims to avoid the fatigued & starving combination.

BTW, macrotastics works best if free will is off.  You are less likely to get queue stomping actions that way.
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Re: Macro Control: Macrotastics
« Reply #36 on: 2008 February 04, 02:51:27 »
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Why no phones?  Phones are one of the things I give my sims as soon as I move them into a lot.  If social is a problem for your sims there are things you can do - sit them at a chess table together, or tell them to chat on the computer, or write in a diary, or send them to daydream on their beds, or send them to a community lot to socialise.  There are plenty of ways to gain social manually.  Or just let the social bunny come to fix their social, and then set them back to what they were doing.  Their social need will fill to halfway while the bunny is on the lot, while they get on with skilling or sleeping or whatever.
well, sometimes I don't take the time to make neighborhood friends when I move sims in because I'm focused on doing something else with them.  And it annoys me to have two or more sims running around on a lot that I've already taken the time to make them friends and have them ignore each other and fall into social failure while running macros....I hate stopping macros when I'm trying to grind them up to something. 

I guess maybe grinding out the gate is bad?  Me needs learn patience.  Tongue


Quote
Sounds like you want macrotastics to have all of your sims in a household automatically make friends with each other.  I'm glad they don't - sometimes I want damaged relationships within a household for storyline purposes, and it would annoy the hell out of me if Pescado changed macrotastics so that sims automatically made friends with all other members of their household.  I want to be in control of who my sims befriend, I don't want to hand that control over to a macro.

No, I just want them to keep being friends after I've made them that way.

I've never been good at large scale multitasking...I get too focused on one thing and other things fall apart.

Quote
Sounds like you need lesswhiny and/or dontwaveatme (I forget which one it is).  Stops them complaining about their needs.  I wouldn't worry too much about the needs being critical.  The only critical need combination that can be deadly if left to macrotastics is critical sleep + critical hunger.  So long as you don't let that combination happen, then macrotastics will handle the rest (apart from social, as you noted). 

I have them both.  They don't seem to always work.  I still get queue stomped when a sim gets too low, it's especially annoying when, say, a plantsim wants sunlight, but won't listen to anything I say when I'm telling him to "go stand under the sunlamp, moron" because he's too busy whining about sunlight  Angry  (I'm assuming macrotastics doesn't really account for the sunlight issue...I don't see how it could since there's no "stand under the light" behavior that I know of.)

I'll have to check and see if there's a conflict, but I don't think there is...there wasn't last time I checked.

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Macrotastics is an aid to playing your game, it isn't meant to replace you playing the game, and you do need to keep an occasional eye on your sims to avoid the fatigued & starving combination.
Yeah, I just wish it would let me know when a sim is reaching critical stupid (i.e. when a need that causes stompage gets close to stompage level).  Or at least a warning message when a macro gets queue stomped.

Really, I don't know why maxis chose animations over text when warning of low needs.  Animations cause interruption that prevents you from satisfying the need and fixing the problem.  Very counterintuitive.

Quote
BTW, macrotastics works best if free will is off.  You are less likely to get queue stomping actions that way.

Hmmm...but I like seeing the autonomous behaviors after I've got a sim finished with my current goals....I just let them do their own thing for a while instead of standing around like a puppet with no master.  It's especially bizarre seeing a family of sims on power idle all sitting on a couch together and completely ignoring the presence of the others.

Maybe I'm just trying to have my cake and eat it, too... Cry

I think we're dangerously close to derailing the thread at this point, so I'll shush.
« Last Edit: 2008 February 04, 03:01:18 by EsotericPolarBear » Logged
J. M. Pescado
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Re: Macro Control: Macrotastics
« Reply #37 on: 2008 February 04, 03:23:32 »
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well, sometimes I don't take the time to make neighborhood friends when I move sims in because I'm focused on doing something else with them.  And it annoys me to have two or more sims running around on a lot that I've already taken the time to make them friends and have them ignore each other and fall into social failure while running macros....I hate stopping macros when I'm trying to grind them up to something. 

I guess maybe grinding out the gate is bad?  Me needs learn patience.  Tongue
Nonsense. Crack that whip! Socializing is for wussies! Let them see the bunny.
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Re: Macro Control: Macrotastics
« Reply #38 on: 2008 February 16, 07:29:55 »
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I decided to run a massive farm through the ringer in a test hood to see if it would be viable for regular gameplay.  I've run the scenario through a few time and it always gets to the point of "Too Many Iterations" errors from Macrotastics in conjunction with BRU and your test garden files.  Do you already know of a set breaking point with number of plants &/or employees?  I've attached the logs from the last time through.  I hope you find them useful.  I can recreate the error if you need some info that I may have left out.  If you can suggest any workarounds or let me know of a conflict from my end, please do.

* DX-farm-logs.zip (504.45 KB - downloaded 530 times.)
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Re: Macro Control: Macrotastics
« Reply #39 on: 2008 February 16, 08:59:34 »
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I am uncertain how it manages to get to that many iterations. This never happens in my game. How many plants did you HAVE?
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Re: Macro Control: Macrotastics
« Reply #40 on: 2008 February 16, 17:53:06 »
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The last try, and peak, was 928.  The first was between six and seven hundred.  The first try definitely had some bugged plants (some unbendable, and one or two overlapping plots), but I didn't detect any of those on the last.
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Re: Macro Control: Macrotastics
« Reply #41 on: 2008 February 27, 15:08:39 »
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I have no idea why macro skillinate doesn't have the ability to dig for stuff for macro -> skillinate -> body... just seems weird to completely ignore a fun body-building activity.
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Re: Macro Control: Macrotastics
« Reply #42 on: 2008 February 27, 16:23:18 »
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1 Thanx for putting bed making into the clean menu choice.  It really helps to cut down on micromanagement.  (baa)

2 Near the beginning of this thread, it was mentioned that cat food bowls are too difficult to keep track of. That's why I buy two bowls.  It's rare that I don't notice when one is empty.

3. I see no problem with dig for stuff having its own menu item.  As an aside, I've never had a Sim develop the body skill while digging.  Has it always been this way?

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Re: Macro Control: Macrotastics
« Reply #43 on: 2008 February 27, 16:34:36 »
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I have no idea why macro skillinate doesn't have the ability to dig for stuff for macro -> skillinate -> body... just seems weird to completely ignore a fun body-building activity.
Digging does not give Body. In fact, digging itself gives nothing. Undigging seems to give a skill, but not much of it, so I don't know which one, plus, undigging does not give any items.
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Re: Macro Control: Macrotastics
« Reply #44 on: 2008 February 27, 16:47:21 »
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I wish digging gave body. Or at least fitness.
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Re: Macro Control: Macrotastics
« Reply #45 on: 2008 February 27, 16:53:31 »
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Hi,

there seems to be a little conflict with something in the "eat" macro.
When my Sims prep some food for themselves using the microwave they don't eat it. Instead they put it directly into the dishwasher.
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Re: Macro Control: Macrotastics
« Reply #46 on: 2008 February 27, 17:50:24 »
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Shouldn't happen unless the food was defective. Will keep an eye out for it.
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Re: Macro Control: Macrotastics
« Reply #47 on: 2008 February 27, 18:00:36 »
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I have no idea why macro skillinate doesn't have the ability to dig for stuff for macro -> skillinate -> body... just seems weird to completely ignore a fun body-building activity.
Digging does not give Body. In fact, digging itself gives nothing. Undigging seems to give a skill, but not much of it, so I don't know which one, plus, undigging does not give any items.
Filling in holes gives cleaning points, though not quickly.
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Re: Macro Control: Macrotastics
« Reply #48 on: 2008 February 27, 18:17:05 »
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And since the objective of macro-digging is to dig as much as possible using the SAME hole, undigging is performed rarely and not high-yield, and thus not a very good source of cleaning.
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Re: Macro Control: Macrotastics
« Reply #49 on: 2008 March 02, 04:00:15 »
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Pes, using macrotastics to macro > sew with a bronze badge is causing the sewing machine to "sew" tulip bouquets. Manually selecting sewing gives you the options for the regular bronze badge items.

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