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dmchess
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Re: "Sleeping Through College" Challenge (draft)
« Reply #50 on: 2005 December 22, 13:05:47 »
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Welp, here's my results.
One is speechless.  (Well, comparatively speechless.)

Conclusion: Still more awesome than you.
You won't get any argument from me!  I stand in awe.  Recycling Professors via vampirism in particular is a brilliant touch.  We'll have to forbid all that stuff in the next version of the rules.  Cool

I really have to instal Nightlife one of these weeks...
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Re: "Sleeping Through College" Challenge (draft)
« Reply #51 on: 2005 December 22, 13:16:36 »
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I fed Sally to the cowplant simply because I didn't want her in the main 'hood for this neighbourhood.
I'm much too softhearted to do stuff like that.  I've never even had a Sim die (except for Benjamin Long that one time, but that was just so Kaylynn could plead him back).  I'm slowly steeling myself to allow some permaplatinum townies / gownies to die of old age someday soon.

On the skilling issue, I think there should be a bonus if you get a skill to at least 8, apart from logic, which has obvious benefits in the hacking path.
There are two schools of thought here: one says that skilling up is a good thing and shoud be rewarded; the other says that it's too much like studying and should be penalized.  We'll suspend judgement for now.  (edit: or we could reward having skills but penalize studying in order to get them, thus giving JMP and his skill-vaccing even more points.)

I didn't make very good use of asp points in Suzette's run (I suspect I'm pretty much the opposite of JMP, in that I don't really plan things out very much, I just sort of dive in doing whatever springs to mind and seeing what happens).  An Energizer probably would have helped her out, and I think she could have easily afforded it.

Sally did get busted a few times, each time was a 450 simoleon fine.
I assume there's a GPA penalty also?  But I guess it's reasonably small?  (Just whatever you'd already gained in the current session, or something?)

Good luck to Nanette!  Cool

On the EA thing, I've seen people posting lately that they've been having problems with the EA site, both with uploading stuff and with viewing other people's pages.  So even if you managed to upload there, others probably would have difficulty viewing it.
Yeah, it seems to be a pretty bogus place in general, but I thought it might be fun to get wider exposure for the Challenge and all.  Maybe I'll post a one-page story (I tried that yesterday with a test story and it worked) with just the teaser image and the URL of the full story.

/Kyna quietly ignores the proof of the non-awesomeness she's already confessed to.
Pah!  Awesome is as awesome does...
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dmchess
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Re: "Sleeping Through College" Challenge (draft)
« Reply #52 on: 2005 December 22, 13:31:06 »
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Befriend professors for GPA boosts. Bite him and get him kicked out of NPC pool for a new professor! No romance.
Any particular trick to reliably meet the appropriate (Drama) profs?  Or do they just eventually walk through the Downtown lot reasonably often?
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J. M. Pescado
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Re: "Sleeping Through College" Challenge (draft)
« Reply #53 on: 2005 December 22, 14:42:38 »
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Any particular trick to reliably meet the appropriate (Drama) profs?
After eliminating a professor, you can meet another one in several ways, among which includes attending your final, or having someone, not necessarily you, go to class. Once someone has identified the professor, you then need to finagle your way into meeting that professor yourself. This can be accomplished in many ways, such as by dating the person who knows the professor to gain the professor as a contact.

The short and skinny of it is that there are many ways to use controllable sims to manipulate the game for other sims without actually sharing a lot with them at any time, and thus giving up the +100 point Lone Gunman bonus.
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Re: "Sleeping Through College" Challenge (draft)
« Reply #54 on: 2005 December 22, 17:46:34 »
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After eliminating a professor, you can meet another one in several ways, among which...
Thank you this is gr--.  Ooops!

El Cheapo Gypsy dating service: 50 first dates! Now permanent platinum.
How does that work?  If there aren't 50 dateable people in the neighborhood that your Sim doesn't know, does the game roll up new ones for the Gypsy to call down out of the sky?  Did you have like 50 skyborne dates all standing around the lot at once, wondering why the datee was ignoring them?  I don't suppose you took any pictures.  *8)
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Re: "Sleeping Through College" Challenge (draft)
« Reply #55 on: 2005 December 22, 18:29:46 »
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I think there has to be a merit bonus for the Pescado approach. Sims should not be skilling in any way that resembles studying - study cleaning/mechanical/cooksing should be forbidden. What about a rule that says skilling is okay if it is building fun, but not otherwise? So neat sims can clean, but sloppy sims cannot, for instance? Everybody can build creativity by playing instruments or painting, and the body skilling activities may be variable depending on the number of active points your sim has.
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Re: "Sleeping Through College" Challenge (draft)
« Reply #56 on: 2005 December 22, 18:41:56 »
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How does that work?  If there aren't 50 dateable people in the neighborhood that your Sim doesn't know, does the game roll up new ones for the Gypsy to call down out of the sky?  Did you have like 50 skyborne dates all standing around the lot at once, wondering why the datee was ignoring them?  I don't suppose you took any pictures.  *Cool

Off topic, but I'd thought I'd reply to this. The answer appears to be NO. One time in a test neighborhood, I had deleted all the Sims, and so there were only two households, but no townies. I was playing with my daughter and her friend, made Sim-thems, and the first thing they wanted was to "find a boyfriend! we want boyfriends!" So.... wait for the matchmaker (the only time I've actually wanted the matchmaker), greet the matchmaker, pay $5k and get.... the mailman. Pay another $5k and get... the only other male Sim in the neighborhood. Pay a final 5k and get... the mailman. Over and over, all we got was the mailman and the one Sim aptly named "Joe Test".

So disappointingly, no, it appears the matchmaker just uses the existing pool and never generates new Sims.
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Re: "Sleeping Through College" Challenge (draft)
« Reply #57 on: 2005 December 22, 21:40:20 »
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So disappointingly, no, it appears the matchmaker just uses the existing pool and never generates new Sims.
Inneresting, thanks.  So to do Pescado's trick in the challlenge I guess you need to first make sure there are 50 first-dateable Sims in the neighborhood (can the Gypsy reach into associated Uni 'hoods?).  Which would be trivial in some neighborhoods, but mine tend to be comparatively sparse...
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Re: "Sleeping Through College" Challenge (draft)
« Reply #58 on: 2005 December 22, 22:52:03 »
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Yeah, the gypsy can bring YA students from Uni. In my experience, there's plenty of people in the college directory, but then I haven't deleted the dormies and such so maybe some people have a smaller pool.
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Re: "Sleeping Through College" Challenge (draft)
« Reply #59 on: 2005 December 22, 23:46:03 »
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The game spawns around 50 dormies, plus there's the maxis made YAs on their uni lots.  Then there's the townies, the downtownies, the NPCs ... So there's a big enough pool, presuming you haven't deleted all characters, moved them in, or killed them all off.  For an adult, the dates pool includes YAs, Adults and Elders.  The gypsy gives you the choice of male or female, so you don't have to restrict your dates to one gender.

Thinking on the vamping-the-profs idea to get them out of the NPC pool ... I guess a good time to do this would be shortly before an exam (if your sim is attending exams).  Then your sim will meet the next two profs at the next exam, with a minimum of fuss.  I know there are other ways to meet profs without going to class, but the exam method is much easier if you're going to be attending anyway.

On the subject of skilling, I don't think CAS sims should be penalised for gaining skills.  Not if neighbourhood sims with maxed out skills are permitted in this challenge - I feel my previously playable sim already has enough of an advantage, without hampering CAS sims even more.  Consider also, that this challenge is designed so that you don't need a new 'hood, you can play this in any of your existing hoods.  Personally, I wouldn't send any sim back to the main hood with less than 5 cooking (at the bare minimum, preferably higher).  If there was a penalty for skilling a CAS sim you'd discourage people from trying the challenge, I know I wouldn't have tried this challenge with Sally (who was a CAS sim) on that basis.

-------------------------------------------------
EDIT to add Nanette's final score and my post-challenge feedback:

+1000 No classes attended
+1500 Graduated summa cum laude
-  100 Main sim started with 20 or more skill points
+ 100 Dorm bonus
+ 100 Non-enhanced dorm bonus.  Non-enhanced for duration of challenge, apart from energisers acquired via her ASP points
+ 400 No influence used for 8 semesters
+ 400 No romantic interactions with professors (didn't even phone them)
+ 100 Drama student for duration of challenge, start to finish.
+ 100 Loner (Nanette was my only controllable sim on campus, and I did not play any lots in the main 'hood/downtown during the challenge)
--------
3600 total, which is the max possible for a sim with more than 20 skill points at the start.

As Pescado has noted there are loopholes involving other controllable sims.  Might be nice to see a bonus for not playing any other controllable sim at all during the challenge (ie sims on other lots).  It's a short challenge, so it's not too much to ask of a player. 

To balance the influence/romance bonus, you might like to consider a 50 point bonus for every semester you didn't hack grades, so that all 3 playing styles have similar scoring advantages and disadvantages.

I like Rohina's idea of a merit bonus for the Pescado approach to gaining skill points.  However I still think players shouldn't be penalised for earning the minimum 20 points required for a degree.  So maybe a small (+10?) bonus for every point simvacced, and a similar penalty for every skillpoint above 20 points that was earned the 'traditional' way - as long as that's not too complex for a player to score.  The attractions of this challenge include its speed and simplicity.  It's playable in an existing hood, with existing sims.  If the scoring system becomes too complex, some players won't bother to score.  And if they're not going to score, they'll probably not bother to remove hacks, mods, etc.

On a related note, the penalty for a sim who starts with skill points could be a sliding scale.  At exactly 20 points the penalty is 100, and every skill point above that could be another -10 to the score.  (Which would mean Nanette would have had a more reasonable penalty of 600 for starting with maxed out skills, instead of 100, bringing my final score to 3100).

Personally I don't think I should be a mere 200 points behind Pescado's score - he started with a CAS sim which required a much more complex strategy than my simple strategy.  BTW he seems to have totalled his score incorrectly.  His score doesn't add up to 3700, it adds up to an even more awesome 3800.

Nanette's strategy : Went to uni lots on first day to meet & befriend 3 SS members.  Got into SS 11pm first day (37 hours semester time left, due to timer counting down on uni lots).  Hacked her grades at SS lot for all semesters.  Attended all exams for 8 A+ results.  She spent the rest of her time back at the dorm, satisfying the 'paint masterpiece' want repeatedly.  Can't claim no bed/toilet, as she slept the first day to roll over the study related starting wants of 'write term paper' 'go to class', etc.  After that she didn't use the bed and she never used the toilet - it was energisers all the way.

This challenge was fun, and it was a refreshing change to the way I usually play my uni sims.  Thanks for this.  I hope my feedback is useful.
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J. M. Pescado
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Re: "Sleeping Through College" Challenge (draft)
« Reply #60 on: 2005 December 23, 05:52:17 »
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Yes, but I bet *YOU* used BEDS and TOILETS!
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Re: "Sleeping Through College" Challenge (draft)
« Reply #61 on: 2005 December 23, 05:55:01 »
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Inneresting, thanks.  So to do Pescado's trick in the challlenge I guess you need to first make sure there are 50 first-dateable Sims in the neighborhood (can the Gypsy reach into associated Uni 'hoods?).  Which would be trivial in some neighborhoods, but mine tend to be comparatively sparse...
Well, I didn't bother to delete all the sims in my neighborhood. In fact, my approach to the challenge was essentially Scorched Earth. Eliminating a dozen professors and countless NPCs and visitors is quite brutal on your neighborhood's filesize. All in all, I'd say in about 50 sims were created as a direct or indirect result of my swath of destruction.

Don't try this strategy on a neighborhood you care about. Tongue
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Re: "Sleeping Through College" Challenge (draft)
« Reply #62 on: 2005 December 23, 06:52:44 »
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Yes, but I bet *YOU* used BEDS and TOILETS!

I already said she used the bed once on the first day to roll over the study related wants (she started at uni with all 4 want slots filled with study related wants) so guilty as charged on the bed score.
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Re: "Sleeping Through College" Challenge (draft)
« Reply #63 on: 2005 December 23, 12:50:51 »
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EDIT to add Nanette's final score and my post-challenge feedback:
Impressive score, and thanks much for the feedback; really glad you enjoyed the challenge. 

To some extent I want to avoid overly detailed scoring rules; not only does it make people less likely to bother in the first place, as you said, but it also sort of gives away all the strategies right up front.  For a hacking-related style bonus, I'm thinking maybe 50 points per term in which the main Sim doesn't use a computer at all.  My tendency is to leave the skill things as they are, just to avoid too much complexity (although your sliding scale for incoming skill penalties does seem sensible).

The thing about beds and toilets was meant as a joke, but then I hadn't really thought about Energizers.  (Not using aspiration rewards at all would be an interesting variant of the challenge; it'd be so different that it probably ought to be thought of as a whole different challenge, rather than just giving some enormous bonus in the current one.  Or there could be some big per-term bonus for not using any; but I don't know if the extra bookkeeping is really worth it.)

So let's see, what should the next challenge be?  How about reaching the top of your career ladder without ever going to work?  Cool
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Re: "Sleeping Through College" Challenge (draft)
« Reply #64 on: 2005 December 23, 18:28:10 »
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Quote
How about reaching the top of your career ladder without ever going to work?

doh,  you can do that?

hmmmm... getting pregnant a lot will keep you employed without going to work, but then how do you get promoted?

I dunno how, but yeah, let's do something like this one - sounds like fun Smiley
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Re: "Sleeping Through College" Challenge (draft)
« Reply #65 on: 2005 December 23, 20:29:34 »
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To get promoted without ever going to work, just date someone higher up in the career field than your sim. If the date goes well, then the sim higher up in the career may put a good word in about the sim who isn't going to work. Wash, rinse, repeat, and style.
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Re: "Sleeping Through College" Challenge (draft)
« Reply #66 on: 2005 December 23, 23:32:49 »
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I bay be mistaken, but nothing is said about hacking grades (Secret-society sims).  It seems that this challenge would be cake as soon as you get your sim into a secret-society.  Is grade-hacking allowable?
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Re: "Sleeping Through College" Challenge (draft)
« Reply #67 on: 2005 December 24, 03:41:29 »
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Quote
How about reaching the top of your career ladder without ever going to work?

doh,  you can do that?
Actually I was kidding again; but from what Venusy says, it sounds like it might be possible in NL, by dating higher-ups.  But I don't know firsthand (have to install NL one of these days).
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Re: "Sleeping Through College" Challenge (draft)
« Reply #68 on: 2005 December 24, 03:43:40 »
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I bay be mistaken, but nothing is said about hacking grades (Secret-society sims).  It seems that this challenge would be cake as soon as you get your sim into a secret-society.  Is grade-hacking allowable?
Grade hacking is definitely allowable.  It has certain risks, requires good logic, requires getting into the Society, etc.  But it might be the most effective way to get a good score.  We're currently considering adding a 50 points bonus per term that the challenge sim doesn't use a computer, which would add a 400-point offset to any bias in the current rules toward grade-hacking as opposed to other styles.
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Re: "Sleeping Through College" Challenge (draft)
« Reply #69 on: 2005 December 24, 06:59:05 »
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Grade hacking is definitely allowable.  It has certain risks, requires good logic, requires getting into the Society, etc.  But it might be the most effective way to get a good score.  We're currently considering adding a 50 points bonus per term that the challenge sim doesn't use a computer, which would add a 400-point offset to any bias in the current rules toward grade-hacking as opposed to other styles.
At this rate, pretty soon there won't *BE* a way to get any grades.
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Re: "Sleeping Through College" Challenge (draft)
« Reply #70 on: 2005 December 24, 07:32:39 »
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To some extent I want to avoid overly detailed scoring rules; not only does it make people less likely to bother in the first place, as you said, but it also sort of gives away all the strategies right up front.  For a hacking-related style bonus, I'm thinking maybe 50 points per term in which the main Sim doesn't use a computer at all. 

You're already giving away 2 of the 3 strategies - the romance and influence ones - in the scoring.  You may as well cover all bases. I like that this is a flexible challenge, encouraging people to have fun with different methods of playing the young adult stage.  I do tend to get in a rut with the boring tediousness of the YA stage, playing it the same way for every sim ... using a different approach was a refreshing change.

I think you need to remember the computers are fun too.  If someone is playing with free will on (not that I do) and their sim autonomously uses the computer for fun, why should they be penalised?  Then there are those who don't realise flamingoes are the best way of boosting fun, or who choose to send their sims to the computer because that's a more 'realistic' way of gaining fun.  There's also the social aspect of the computer - emails, chatting to meet new people, etc.  Especially since in a hackless game you can roll wants regarding the fun/social aspects of computers.
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Re: "Sleeping Through College" Challenge (draft)
« Reply #71 on: 2005 December 24, 15:31:40 »
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Grade hacking is definitely allowable.  It has certain risks, requires good logic, requires getting into the Society, etc.  But it might be the most effective way to get a good score.  We're currently considering adding a 50 points bonus per term that the challenge sim doesn't use a computer, which would add a 400-point offset to any bias in the current rules toward grade-hacking as opposed to other styles.
At this rate, pretty soon there won't *BE* a way to get any grades.
Or at least to get any grades without forgoing some potential style bonus.  Which might be frustrating to those who like to get every single possible point. Cool  (I remember back in the SLIGE days I added a "no monsters in secret rooms" switch, because there was one guy who just had to both kill every monster and zip through the level in minimum time, and monsters in secret rooms annoyed him because he had to slow down to find the rooms and kill the monsters.)
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Re: "Sleeping Through College" Challenge (draft)
« Reply #72 on: 2005 December 24, 15:37:32 »
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To some extent I want to avoid overly detailed scoring rules; not only does it make people less likely to bother in the first place, as you said, but it also sort of gives away all the strategies right up front.  For a hacking-related style bonus, I'm thinking maybe 50 points per term in which the main Sim doesn't use a computer at all. 

You're already giving away 2 of the 3 strategies - the romance and influence ones - in the scoring.  You may as well cover all bases. I like that this is a flexible challenge, encouraging people to have fun with different methods of playing the young adult stage.  I do tend to get in a rut with the boring tediousness of the YA stage, playing it the same way for every sim ... using a different approach was a refreshing change.
Glad to hear it!  On the scoring, I like asymmetry; if deciding to go for the no-hacking style bonus also means that you have to put up with a restriction against other uses of the computer also (and if the rules are more cagey about hacking than about the other two methods of GPA building), that's okay with me.  It introduces a nonlinearity...  Cool

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Re: "Sleeping Through College" Challenge (draft)
« Reply #73 on: 2005 December 26, 04:25:59 »
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I had fun with this last night.  Georgina is a romance Sim with the "woohoo with 20 sims" want, so I went with a blend of promiscuity, influence, and crime to solve the challenge.  (I defer to JM's awesomeness but I just can't get into the vampire thing... don't really like the aliens either.  But I digress).

Georgina's MO was to first befriend the local secret society folks (two of whom lived in her dorm, fortuitously) and then satisfy her sexual desires to gain influence with which to convince her lovers to write her term papers and do her assignments.  This usually worked pretty well, except in one semester (the only one where I sent her to a class during the challenge) she had a massive falling out with Prof. Ted who proceeded to take away all her grade points for the semester.  I'm not really sure what happened, but no matter what she tried to do to make it up to him, he got more and more peeved until she was left with nothing.  Unfortunately, she'd already had the term paper done and she was out of influence, so I sent her to one class and then had her hack her grades.  She did get caught once hacking grades as well, but hadn't done the term paper yet luckily.

She only slept with one professor but befriended several.  Mostly she slept with her roommates and random other folks she met on campus.  Her grades weren't spectacular (3.3) but heck, in real life she'd have been lucky to get that having attended only one class.   Final score was 1500.  Not an awesome score, but she had a relatively realistic methodology.  It was fun.  Plus I learned something - I'd never made the connection that Influence to Do My Assignment was only available when the assignment was on the table before ... RL here I come!

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Re: "Sleeping Through College" Challenge (draft)
« Reply #74 on: 2005 December 26, 18:56:44 »
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I had fun with this last night.
Glad to hear it!  That's more important than the score; the score is just to structure the fun.  How'd you get her to meet the correct professors without going to class?

Plus I learned something - I'd never made the connection that Influence to Do My Assignment was only available when the assignment was on the table before ... RL here I come!
Grin Yeah, that's something every high school senior should be taught...
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