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Author Topic: Error codes 12 and 13 along with crashing.  (Read 187878 times)
ciane
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Re: Error codes 12 and 13 along with crashing.
« Reply #300 on: 2010 January 27, 20:59:37 »
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For now, my game isn't crashing or erroring. The CFF explorer appears to have made the difference. There were a lot of other things mentioned in various threads that I also tried that might have helped me play longer without errors or crashing.
I keep my cc limited to a very few, small-sized files.
I changed my themed desktop image to a plain color.
I deleted my AVG 9.0 that had been updated from 8.5 to a fresh install of the 9.0 version.
I was already playing with "high detail lots" set to "3," which may have been my default. (Someone on a thread at the Sims 3 forums mentioned his or her system crashed or errored at anything over 4.)
I started deleting all caches before each game play, so they wouldn't bloat beyond the magic number that might crash my system.
I added Sims 3 to my DEP exception list.
I uninstalled the EADM that I never use.
I started quiting the game before surfing the net, rather than just minimizing it.
I use 3Booter and the FPS limiter.
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ciane
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Re: Error codes 12 and 13 along with crashing.
« Reply #301 on: 2010 February 05, 20:01:51 »
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The secret to getting Vista to accept new applications and changes is to put them directly on your desktop and alter the data there. (It's the same way I have to change the resource.cfg file.) Always backup the original file. (I keep a folder on my desktop for original files and then alter a copy.) After moving the TS3.exe file from the Sims 3 folder to a folder on the desktop, place a copy of it directly on your desktop (outside the folder). Make the change allowing more than 2 Gigs of RAM by simply checking the appropriate box. Then place that copy back in the Sims 3 folder.
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Noenmity
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Re: Error codes 12 and 13 along with crashing.
« Reply #302 on: 2010 February 06, 04:44:44 »
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I don't think DEP is the cause.  I was getting E12/E13 once an hour (if not more often) and my DEP setting was Windows 7 default of "Enable DEP for essential Windows programs and services only." which excludes 3rd party programs already.

I can confirm on both of my machines, E12/E13 was completely cured by CFF Explorer changing to allow >2GB usage.  I have no doubt, because it was an immediate night and day difference.

Some extra steps may help if you're using 32-bit Windows.
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=224178  (not a sims site, but apparently RAM size limitations cause problems in many other games so the solution applies here too.)


There is some really important information in your thread GnatGoSplat.

First, I've also been plagued with EC12 since buying it last June with no end to it in sight. My Alienware just came back from being completely rebuilt at the repair shop and with mostly all new hardware I assumed TS3 would run better than ever. WRONG! If I played more than a few minutes I'd get EC12 or desktop crashes upon saving. And if I actually managed a successful save, I'd have to quit the game, delete the caches and restart the game only to play a few minutes more. Furthermore, I haven't been able to play with CC other than a few hacks. Also my game wasn't handling store bought content very well because the game would randomly black out the build/buy menus. And also, I haven't been able to age up my toddlers and children who have been the same age for a very long time because whenever I'd try to age them up I'd get EC12.

That said, I tried CFF and it didn't seem to help, if it did improve the game, i didn't notice the difference.

Now for the good news! I followed your link to the Civ forums and tried their recipe for changing the ram size usage in command prompt and I just can't believe the difference in game play. Not only is the game totally lag free but I played for 8 hours straight last night without either saving or crashing and then, finally decided to try a save, totally expecting either an EC12 or a crash and in less than a minute it saved the game. I couldn't believe it. I was totally amazed! And guess what, I even aged up many of the toddlers and children who have been stuck in their ages forever with no EC12. My pc is finally starting to act the $$$$$.00 computer it is!

FYI, I'm running Vista 32 bit but have a copy of windows 7 64 bit right next to me which will be installed as soon as I feel like talking to an Alienware tech, which i'm not very motivated to do for certain reasons. However, when it is installed i'll be sure to make the same changes in command prompt if its necessary to do so. At least I have the information for this mega EC12 fix if I need it with the new OS.

Anyway, thanks so much for posting this information GnatGoSplat, I don't know if EC12 will come back but at least for now its made the difference between night and day.

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GnatGoSplat
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Re: Error codes 12 and 13 along with crashing.
« Reply #303 on: 2010 February 07, 03:21:22 »
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Noenmity, I'm glad you found that thread useful!  However, you only need to do the bcdedit command prompt stuff if you're using 32-bit Windows.  As you discovered, CFF Explorer by itself didn't have any effect on 32-bit Windows.  The bcdedit command prompt stuff is what configures Windows to take advantage of the change you made with CFF Explorer.  64-bit Windows already supports >2GB for programs out of the box so you only need to do the CFF Explorer part.

Also, be sure to backup the original .exe file.  If you patch, it will need to find the original file.

I'm confident this is the E12/E13 fix as I never get them anymore and that was the only step I took to try to eliminate them.
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Noenmity
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Re: Error codes 12 and 13 along with crashing.
« Reply #304 on: 2010 February 07, 22:04:09 »
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I'm confident this is the E12/E13 fix as I never get them anymore and that was the only step I took to try to eliminate them.

I'm not that tech savvy but, I think your right about the cause of EC12. It makes sense that it would be the cause of EC12 because all the system crashes i've had since buying the game all referred to a lack of memory on my pc of which my pc has no shortage of. It was frustrating.

Since making the CP adjustment I've been able to do things in game I haven't been able to do without EC12 such as save the game on community lots and also save the game on my biggest lot that has massive amounts of objects on it. Also, I can actually use build/buy mode and be reckless about it without EC12. It dazzles the mind to think something so simple could fix such a major problem.

Thanks again!
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tizerist
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Re: Error codes 12 and 13 along with crashing.
« Reply #305 on: 2010 February 07, 22:19:05 »
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However, you only need to do the bcdedit command prompt stuff if you're using 32-bit Windows.  As you discovered, CFF Explorer by itself didn't have any effect on 32-bit Windows. 
This prompt, when typed in, merely flashes the black box up for a half second, and then thats it right?
No confirmation or anything, you just restart your computer at that point.
True?
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Noenmity
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Re: Error codes 12 and 13 along with crashing.
« Reply #306 on: 2010 February 08, 01:47:26 »
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Tizerist, If your referring to the what the Civ board says to type into CP, he left out something that needs to be typed in also.

On the Civ board it says this

- Now we need to make Windows Vista (32-Bit) ready to support more than 2 GByte.
- Open a command prompt with Administration rights. You find it under "Programs->Accessories->Command prompt" click right and select "run as administrator".
- Enter "bcdedit /set IncreaseUserVA 3072" (without quotes) in the command window and press enter.
After that restart windows
- For Windows XP there is a similar setting for the boot.ini, but I am not sure what it is, should be found be google.

He says to type this.... "bcdedit /set IncreaseUserVA 3072" minus the quotes

But he omitted a word which should be typed exactly this way... "bcdedit.exe /set IncreaseUserVA 3072" minus the quotes

At least it's what worked for me.
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tizerist
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Re: Error codes 12 and 13 along with crashing.
« Reply #307 on: 2010 February 08, 13:49:50 »
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Tizerist, If your referring to the what the Civ board says to type into CP, he left out something that needs to be typed in also.

he omitted a word which should be typed exactly this way... "bcdedit.exe /set IncreaseUserVA 3072" minus the quotes
Hmmm, well the way which was on the Civ2 board has worked by the looks of it.
If I get any problems, I'll try your way.

And I also didn't use administration right. I turned that off years ago.
I suppose it won't hurt to do it your way also.
Typing it in twice doesn't reverse the process, does it?

My game hasn't been this glitch-free since like July. I've only done about 5-6 hours testing, but 5-6 hours without a crash is a result.

I even went and added another 32 sims in my town, FPS went down a bit, but no CTD's. Before I was crashing with 6 sims, and with some lots removed for stability also.

Taks manager showed I was using 2.32 gb last night. This would appear to be proof of an improvement. I cannot believe what I witnessed last night. Admittedly, non-EA CC was removed, but that never stopped the crashing before.
Progress has been made.
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GnatGoSplat
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Re: Error codes 12 and 13 along with crashing.
« Reply #308 on: 2010 February 08, 17:48:55 »
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It won't hurt to omit the ".exe" on the end of bcdedit.  From the command-line, anytime you type the name of an executable, the .exe is implied.
Doing it again shouldn't reverse it.
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Noenmity
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Re: Error codes 12 and 13 along with crashing.
« Reply #309 on: 2010 February 08, 23:56:30 »
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Quote
Also, be sure to backup the original .exe file.  If you patch, it will need to find the original file.

GnatGoSplat, what exe. file are you referring to?
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ChilltownNJ
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Re: Error codes 12 and 13 along with crashing.
« Reply #310 on: 2010 February 09, 02:53:21 »
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I am positive he is talking about the original game executable, either ts3.exe (Base Game), Ts3ep01.exe (WA) or TS3SP01.exe (HELS).  Depending on what executable you are trying to modify, you need to back it up prior to editing it, because when the time comes to update, you may (will?) not be able to update because the file is not the original file, that the patcher looks for, to continue the update.
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ciane
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Re: Error codes 12 and 13 along with crashing.
« Reply #311 on: 2010 February 09, 04:04:05 »
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Actually, I believe it was in direct response to this:

Tizerist, If your referring to the what the Civ board says to type into CP, he left out something that needs to be typed in also.

On the Civ board it says this

- Now we need to make Windows Vista (32-Bit) ready to support more than 2 GByte.
- Open a command prompt with Administration rights. You find it under "Programs->Accessories->Command prompt" click right and select "run as administrator".
- Enter "bcdedit /set IncreaseUserVA 3072" (without quotes) in the command window and press enter.
After that restart windows
- For Windows XP there is a similar setting for the boot.ini, but I am not sure what it is, should be found be google.

He says to type this.... "bcdedit /set IncreaseUserVA 3072" minus the quotes

But he omitted a word which should be typed exactly this way... "bcdedit.exe /set IncreaseUserVA 3072" minus the quotes

At least it's what worked for me.

The .exe refered to is bcdedit. It isn't enough to tell the game to allow the use of more than 2 gigs if the operating system doesn't allow more. Vista 64 apparently allows more RAM to be utilized (once checked with the CFF Explorer), but Vista 32 and XP systems need additional authorization. Reading through the link shows that "/maxmem 3072" allows 3GB to be utilized, but sometimes "/3GB" needs to added as well for XP systems. Note the forum includes a disclaimer NOT to copy and paste over the original line but to just add the change to the end of the line.
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ChilltownNJ
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Re: Error codes 12 and 13 along with crashing.
« Reply #312 on: 2010 February 09, 04:34:26 »
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Call me crazy, but why would it refer to bcdedit.exe when that program isn't being patched or edited in any way, shape or form, which wouldn't require it to be backed up?  Bcdedit.exe is a cmdline program that modifies the boot information, %systemdrive%\boot\bcd file for Vista and Win 7 systems, it doesn't get modified.  The only file being modified by CFF Explorer is the Game Executable, which would need to be modified in order to allow it to process more than 2GB.  Also, the switches /Maxmem 3072 and /3GB, in XP, are added to the boot.ini file.

I believe it was more in response to this:
Noenmity, I'm glad you found that thread useful!  However, you only need to do the bcdedit command prompt stuff if you're using 32-bit Windows.  As you discovered, CFF Explorer by itself didn't have any effect on 32-bit Windows.  The bcdedit command prompt stuff is what configures Windows to take advantage of the change you made with CFF Explorer.  64-bit Windows already supports >2GB for programs out of the box so you only need to do the CFF Explorer part.

Also, be sure to backup the original .exe file.  If you patch, it will need to find the original file.

I'm confident this is the E12/E13 fix as I never get them anymore and that was the only step I took to try to eliminate them.


But, then again, I could be wrong.
« Last Edit: 2010 February 09, 04:47:28 by ChilltownNJ » Logged
GnatGoSplat
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Re: Error codes 12 and 13 along with crashing.
« Reply #313 on: 2010 February 09, 17:00:06 »
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Quote
Also, be sure to backup the original .exe file.  If you patch, it will need to find the original file.

GnatGoSplat, what exe. file are you referring to?

Sorry, I was referring to bcdedit.exe here.  Whether you type bcdedit by itself or bcdedit.exe from the command line doesn't matter, as the .exe extension is implied.

Call me crazy, but why would it refer to bcdedit.exe when that program isn't being patched or edited in any way, shape or form, which wouldn't require it to be backed up?  Bcdedit.exe is a cmdline program that modifies the boot information, %systemdrive%\boot\bcd file for Vista and Win 7 systems, it doesn't get modified.  The only file being modified by CFF Explorer is the Game Executable, which would need to be modified in order to allow it to process more than 2GB.  Also, the switches /Maxmem 3072 and /3GB, in XP, are added to the boot.ini file.

I was referring to the TS3.exe (or TS3EP01.exe or TS3SP01.exe) that needs to be backed up, not bcdedit.exe.  Sorry for the confusion.
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ciane
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Re: Error codes 12 and 13 along with crashing.
« Reply #314 on: 2010 February 09, 17:38:15 »
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Sorry, Chilltown. I read the question as a direct response to the post immediately before it. The linked forum had stressed that one shouldn't copy and paste data over the existing lines, just to add the modifications to the end. So I was thinking of backing up before making a change.
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tizerist
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Re: Error codes 12 and 13 along with crashing.
« Reply #315 on: 2010 February 09, 17:57:11 »
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How much do I actually have here for TS3? 3.25 plus  paging file? I'm a bit confused...

Installed physical memory (RAM) 4.00 gb
Total physical memory 3.25 gb
Available physical memory 2.26
Total virtual memory 12.00 gb
Available virtual memory 11.00 gb
Page file space 8.88 gb

And can I in theory tap in bcdedit /set IncreaseUserVA 4096 and it would find this for TS3 also?
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ChilltownNJ
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Re: Error codes 12 and 13 along with crashing.
« Reply #316 on: 2010 February 09, 21:21:21 »
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Sorry, Chilltown. I read the question as a direct response to the post immediately before it. The linked forum had stressed that one shouldn't copy and paste data over the existing lines, just to add the modifications to the end. So I was thinking of backing up before making a change.

Np, Ciane, we were both right, but, maybe I should have just left the question to the person it was addressed to, to spare confusion.  And yes when editing the boot.ini file one errant letter can cause a system not to boot correctly.  So it should definitely be saved prior to editing.  Although, you can add a failsafe to the boot.ini file just by copying the line and changing the name to "Windows "Whatever" 3GB"  and then adding the switches to the newly copied line.

Well, tizerist, you are opening up "a whole nother" can of worms there!  Oh boy, where to start...

I'm guessing that you are using Vista, possibly x64 flavor, because you have an over 4GB swap file, but then, I could be wrong if you allocated 3 or more hard drives for swap file space, which would be insane, to say the least.  

Then again, since you have installed 4GB of ram, but the system is only allocating 3.25 means that you don't have an x64 system... WTF is going on!  <screams>

Ok, now that I have calmed down, somewhat, What is your OS?  What bit is it, x64 or x86(32)?  How much ram did you install in it?  And something is seriously funky with the way you set your pagefiles up.

Well, we actually don't need to go that deep unless you want to explain why your pagefile is the way that it is.  Total physical memory + Pagefile Space = Total virtual memory available to the system.  Since your available physical memory is 2.26, that means that your system alone uses about 1GB to run normal processes, that's assuming you got that info after a reboot with no non boot programs running.
« Last Edit: 2010 February 09, 21:53:28 by ChilltownNJ » Logged
tizerist
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Re: Error codes 12 and 13 along with crashing.
« Reply #317 on: 2010 February 09, 21:56:41 »
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Yes Vista 32. 4 x 1gb RAM.
And the 1 gb being used, thats vista plus firefox plus a couple of Windows Explorer windows open, so thats fine.
Closing everything means 778mb is being used - no probs.

And the deep page file - yes its monstrously deep. I read that it should be 4x higher than your RAM.
Nevertheless, my computer now handles the game easily. The most Task Manager showed was 2.8 gb being used. Does that mean it was using exclusively 2.0 gb for the game?

Oh, and bcdedit /set IncreaseUserVA 4096
Worth doing?
« Last Edit: 2010 February 09, 22:04:19 by tizerist » Logged
ChilltownNJ
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Re: Error codes 12 and 13 along with crashing.
« Reply #318 on: 2010 February 09, 22:09:41 »
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The more Ram you have, the less you need a swapfile, plain and simple.  Larger swap sizes were necessary when Ram amounts were low.  Unless you need large swap sizes for apps like Photoshop, you are just wasting space.  And even then, if your computer is capping out on your swap file, then that means you have way to little ram.  System Ram can access data in 0.000,000,01 of a second theoretically, while a Swapfile (fake ram) residing on your hard drive is bound by the limits of mechanical plater rotation and head motion, can only access data in 0.013 seconds, theoretically of course.  Don't believe the swap file hype.

BTW, are you using 1 large contiguous 8.88 GB swapfile or is it between multiple hard drives?

I'm researching the /set IncreaseUserVA 4096 in detail so I will get back to you on that in a bit.

Ok, I would think that setting the switch to 4096 would not improve your situation, and possibly make things worse, because you only have 4GB of memory, your system can only see 3.25 (limitation set by x86 system), and your system, barely running, is using 1GB of system memory already.  If the Sims was to actually utilize 3GB of system memory, what would be left for the actual system to run, 0.25gb?
« Last Edit: 2010 February 09, 22:20:03 by ChilltownNJ » Logged
tizerist
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Re: Error codes 12 and 13 along with crashing.
« Reply #319 on: 2010 February 09, 22:18:15 »
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BTW, are you using 1 large contiguous 8.88 GB swapfile or is it between multiple hard drives?
I have three hard drives. Don't know much more than that. Tongue
Thanks.
If the Sims was to actually utilize 3GB of system memory, what would be left for the actual system to run, 0.25gb?
Well, I was hoping thats where the paging file would come in.
« Last Edit: 2010 February 09, 22:27:03 by tizerist » Logged
ChilltownNJ
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Re: Error codes 12 and 13 along with crashing.
« Reply #320 on: 2010 February 09, 22:39:17 »
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Seeing as you are running a 32 bit OS, I don't believe you are capable of addressing more than 4gb (4096 MB) per hard drive, unless you had some sort of /pae extensions set in bcdedit.  So it is likely you have a swapfile in each hard drive in your system.  And you say your computer now handles the game easily?  Oh man, well, no need for me to go any more in-depth.  Your situation is still scary, to me.  The last thing you want is your main system processes to be running in <shivvers> pagefile memory.


Tizerist, I can't leave your system hanging like that, the tech in me won't allow it...

Do this for me please, pretty please? 
Goto  Start > Control Panel > System and Security > System > Advanced System Settings > Advanced (tab) > Settings > Advanced Tab > Virtual Memory (change), if it is automatically being managed, uncheck it, Highlight C:, tick the custom size radio button, and then in initial size put 4096 and in Max size put 4096, click set, click OK.  Make sure that all other drives Paging file size says None and then reboot. Check the system memory report that you did earlier and post the findings for me if you can.  In all reality, a swapfile should be located on the fastest hard drive in your system, and preferably not on the system hard drive, unless it just so happens to be the fastest hard drive you have or only hard drive you have.
« Last Edit: 2010 February 10, 00:11:28 by ChilltownNJ » Logged
tizerist
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Re: Error codes 12 and 13 along with crashing.
« Reply #321 on: 2010 February 10, 00:08:37 »
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I see.
The theory was that if Vista + TS3 took up more than the physical amount of RAM, then the virtual one could be used  to sort of "raise the ceiling" so that the limit is not reached, and therefore, no CTD.

This would only really be necessary in dense areas, and I don't think I will really need this "emergency memory" to be honest.
The objective is to simply give TS3 as much room as possible. Even if the paging file is, as you say, relatively slow compared to the physical RAM, I just want it to help in any way it can.
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ChilltownNJ
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Re: Error codes 12 and 13 along with crashing.
« Reply #322 on: 2010 February 10, 00:26:16 »
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Yup, you got it!  And i'm glad your game is playing the way you payed to play it, for the most part *cough, bugs*.  My concern is for your system speed, game speed and hard drive degradation once you reach this ceiling and fall over to too much mock memory.  I have a theory that if you lower your ceiling a bit, which is very high at the moment, you will not notice much of a gain, but you will gain much in the long run as in:  Less hard drive thrashing (swapping of info from ram to pagefile) which in turn will give you longer hard drive life.  My 2x150GB raided raptors have been going strong without a single hiccup, in my main machine, for over 4 years, which has been on damn near 24/7 or as close to it as mechanically possible, and I think this is possible partly because I keep large amounts of System Memory 8GB ddr2 upgraded to 8GB ddr3 (mobo upgrade 6 months ago) and small swap files 2GB located on a 2.01GB partition at the front of another hard drive.  

Damn, honestly, I'm a performance junkie, and a tweak slut...  Your Situation is good and if you've found settings that work for you, even better.  I went way to deep into this, when in all actuality, your situation works for you.  I hope you atleast have a better understanding of memory and your system after this though, if so, then it was worth it!
« Last Edit: 2010 February 10, 00:32:13 by ChilltownNJ » Logged
tizerist
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Re: Error codes 12 and 13 along with crashing.
« Reply #323 on: 2010 February 10, 00:40:34 »
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Vista is on C, so I'll use F.

Now it looks like this:
Installed physical memory (RAM) 4.00 gb
Total physical memory 3.25 gb
Available physical memory 2.30
Total virtual memory 7.18 gb
Available virtual memory 6.25 gb
Page file space 4.00 gb
 
I've also done
bcdedit /set IncreaseUserVA 4096

« Last Edit: 2010 February 10, 13:36:13 by tizerist » Logged
jjsy
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Re: Error codes 12 and 13 along with crashing.
« Reply #324 on: 2010 April 03, 14:21:09 »
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This thread will live as long as EA is driving the sims....

Anyway, this is an addition to the error-knowledge wrt to error code 12.  Got it but managed to somewhat avert it in this case.

No save file voodoo, just plain in game actions.

This particular cause is due to something bad on a new lot I was editting.  Mind you, I used no cheat codes NOR any non officail items (only those from base game + WA).  Somewhere down the line, the program decides that it no longer like my save file so refuses to save.

How I averted this problem: due to the fact that the last big thing I was doing was building a new house on a lot, it quite clearly got the red tag for being suspicious. Fortunately, it was unoccupied, so firstly, I made a copy of it in library (just for reference).  Then bulldozed the lot. Error 12 is gone and I can save normally again.  Just for further testing, I plonk down the lot from the library into the neighborhood again.  sure enough, I got error 12 again.  Fortunately, bulldozing the lot averts the problem.  I don't know if it is a freak bug sims make when saving or there is some architecturally unappealing about my building (honestly, my buildings are quite simple, no tricks or fancy stuff).  I started from scratch again to progressively test saving to try to find out where the error 12 will occur.  Will add on to this post when it is done (possibly take a while,most of the time waiting for save).

So if you got a suspected lot/building related code 12, moving it to library and bulldozing it will at least allow you to save the game.   not sure about occupied lots, but it could be possible to evict them then bulldoze the lot giving problem.

PS: one more proof of bad EA save, when I place the copy of the building from the library back onto a lot, some strange stuff which wasn't there appeared.  Basically, I build a part of the building right up to 1 square away from the lot edge, but I did not place anything on that 1 square buffer zone.  but when I placed the saved building down, a part of the ceiling which did not reach the edge now do, and the side of floor tile touching the edge goes all crazy resulting in a sloped floor tile.  Something could be wrong with EA's saving of certain building lots especially when you build close to the edge.  I will post when I get more info, but in the mean time, if you have problems with building lots, try keeping a little more distance from the buggy lot edge.

EDIT: Think I narrowed down the culprit: I was drying to dig a well, by using a low fence to create a 2x2 square, covered the outer surrounding floor tiles, then using the pond tool to lower the center of the 2x2 square to reveal the water body (diamond perimeter within the 2x2 square).  For some reasons, the program hates this and produces the error code 12.  It becomes ok again as soon as I flattened the pond into flat terrain again.

I did some more experiments : varying depth of the pond doesn't seem to matter.  Removing the fence also doesn't seem to matter.  What DOES matter seems to be the size and shape of the pond.  error code 12 disappears when I increase the pond size to 4x4 squares.

Verdict:  Ponds can cause error code 12
Solution:  Try changing size and shape
« Last Edit: 2010 April 03, 18:36:50 by jjsy » Logged
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