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Author Topic: TSR has already a Workshop for CC...  (Read 59541 times)
Inge
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Re: TSR has already a Workshop for CC...
« Reply #75 on: 2009 June 02, 11:29:00 »
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Merlin, I don't think I can make it much clearer how everything fits together.   If it looks to you like other people are saying different, then it is either that those claims are inaccurate, or that they are ambiguous (and you read them the wrong way), or they haven't said it at all and you're reading something that is not there.

As to whether I am supporting TSR, that would depend on your understanding of what comprises support!  If you think offering information about fileformats is supporting TSR, then you will probably think of me as supporting TSR.   If you think I am completly lying about my involvement and that I am really on their board of directors, then you will certainly think I am supporting them.

Personally I just got bored with the paysite issue and I am treating TSR owners/modders like I would any other site owner/modder.   I would have thought that had sunk in at least a year ago (for those who could be bothered to notice my views) when I concluded that the anti-paysite movement was having no significant effect on the pay/free distribution of game content, and was simply stirring up hatred and distrust and therefore having a nett negative effect on the community.
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Merlin
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Re: TSR has already a Workshop for CC...
« Reply #76 on: 2009 June 02, 12:07:10 »
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I know you will hate me now, but for me that is support. Though as you said you're tired talking about the free/pay fed, I can 'understand' somehow your decision although I'm a bit shocked that you're sharing information and help them with that to create their 'exclusive' workshop.

And trust me, if you wouldn't be a member here I probably wouldn't be that shocked...
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Inge
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Re: TSR has already a Workshop for CC...
« Reply #77 on: 2009 June 02, 12:12:02 »
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That's ok Merlin, it's your brain, you have to organise it how it suits you best Smiley
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Merlin
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Re: TSR has already a Workshop for CC...
« Reply #78 on: 2009 June 02, 12:32:06 »
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Thanks for this answer!
This lousy excuse just confirms that I'm absolutely right with my presumptions (or better: facts)...

 Wink


And it's all fine, if you can deal with working for a fucking... that shares personal informations,hacks other websites, betrays their members etc.


Edit: I think I'm done with this conversation. I can't stand T$R.
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Mootilda
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Re: TSR has already a Workshop for CC...
« Reply #79 on: 2009 June 02, 14:36:36 »
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Well, I basically agree with Inge on this one, although I'm not involved in the creation of any Sims3 tools.

I have always tried to share information that I find out about TS2: posting file formats, discussing the way that the game works, and updating the wiki.  I honestly believe that the community is best served by having information freely available to all.  I've never tried to keep that information from people at any paysite.  In addition, my tools are available to all and I'm sure that people at paysites use them.

So, if that makes me a collaborator, then I'm guilty of collaborating on TS2 (not TS3, though... that's definitely false information).

However, if andi had not posted what he knew about hood and lot packages, I never would have developed any of my tools; that information was invaluable.  I honestly hope that people will share TS3 information as they have shared TS2 info in the past.

It seems clear from what Inge said that various people from the community are trying to determine file formats and using that information to create various tools.  TSR's statement is misleading, since it sounds like they are saying that TSR is running the show and allowing non-TSR modders to "help" to create tools which TSR has generously decided to share.  As far as I can tell, that isn't the case.
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daisywenham
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Re: TSR has already a Workshop for CC...
« Reply #80 on: 2009 June 02, 15:03:51 »
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Quote
It seems clear from what Inge said that various people from the community are trying to determine file formats and using that information to create various tools.  TSR's statement is misleading, since it sounds like they are saying that TSR is running the show and allowing non-TSR modders to "help" to create tools which TSR has generously decided to share.  As far as I can tell, that isn't the case.

I'm definitely put off by this. 

On the other hand, I agree with Inge.  If sharing info with people from TSR means that we have a better tool sooner, then hooray.   Also, using TSR's tool to make content that's free for everyone > TSR using other people's free tools to make pay content, IMO.
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brownlustgirl
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Re: TSR has already a Workshop for CC...
« Reply #81 on: 2009 June 02, 15:22:14 »
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My question was asked about Inge and the rest, cause I don't believe Thomass. My thought is "Propaganda and Lies" about the tools. (Borrowing the phrase...)  Now I don't mind getting info to discuss, but I would love for the original Sims 2 modders to offer a tool of their own. My distrust of TSR, yeah I got the tinfoil hat, have me believing when they offer the tool for free, later down the line it will be up for purchase. Maybe for updates or whatever. If we don't fork over the cash, no more CC for you! My paranoia.  Tongue
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Zazazu
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Re: TSR has already a Workshop for CC...
« Reply #82 on: 2009 June 02, 15:28:02 »
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This:
If they can pull it off, it's gonna be a neat little tool and I will certainly use it (assuming it's free and doesn't come with a clause that automatically uploads everything I make to TSR).

I refuse to let community politics get in the way of enjoying my game to the ultimate.  If I like the tool I will use it and I don't care wtf made it.

Does not mean this:
She's basically said that if TSR got every other Sims site in the world closed down she wouldn't care cause it's only a game
Either you have major reading comprehension issues, or you don't give a shit if you slander someone.
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Re: TSR has already a Workshop for CC...
« Reply #83 on: 2009 June 02, 16:07:11 »
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Besides, its a matter of principle.  Just because TSR is run by some very underhanded, unethical, selfish people [imo] doesn't mean we have to stoop to their level and be as nasty.
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Madame Mim
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Re: TSR has already a Workshop for CC...
« Reply #84 on: 2009 June 03, 00:02:58 »
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I have a series of statements that you can take any way you like.

1. McCarthyism much?
2. Freedom of information specifically as it relates to the sharing of information by diverse groups working on similar progects.
3. Exchange of facts is not collaboration.
4. To anyone who still believes TSR's implied 'information' rather than Inge, Mootilda or any of the others we've received so much from in the past - I have a beautiful, one previous owner, bridge in fine condition + it's made of pure gold and weigh's over a ton. I'll sell it to you for US$3,000.
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Echo
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Re: TSR has already a Workshop for CC...
« Reply #85 on: 2009 June 03, 00:05:54 »
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I know you will hate me now, but for me that is support. Though as you said you're tired talking about the free/pay fed, I can 'understand' somehow your decision although I'm a bit shocked that you're sharing information and help them with that to create their 'exclusive' workshop.
By that definition, then the entire free community been supporting TSR since day one of TS1, so it's a bit silly to start complaining about it now. Wink

The free community is just that. Free. We don't try and withhold information or knowledge or specifications or tools in order to advance our own position. We publish it, we share it, we have wikis for it, we write tutorials for it. Because our information is freely available, TSR has complete access to all of this information without any catches. They always have, and they always will. The difference in this scenario is that TSR are adding their own findings to that general, "free" set of community knowledge. Paysite politics aside, that is something of a show of faith from them.
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wes_h
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Re: TSR has already a Workshop for CC...
« Reply #86 on: 2009 June 03, 00:49:13 »
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Arguments seem to erupt with frequency here. To my knowledge, so one is helping TSR create their tool, other than the people TSR has named as a part of the effort. Some people (well, at least one lonely cowboy) are competing essentially head-on with their efforts. Sharing format discoveries has been a part of the community for longer than I have been a part of the community, and I support that level of cooperation whole-heartedly.

A lot of technical facts on this game have been disclosed today, on a wiki donated by MTS, and more will follow soon. The gal being villified somewhat here was a part of that effort, and eventually all will benefit in ways not yet foreseeable. Exchanging information at this level is like sharing recipes... execution is the key, and success is 90% perspiration. The best oven and recipes will not survive incompetent application.  I have certainly benefitted as a programmer from the testing efforts of some who are associated with TSR, as well as some that have been very avid anti-paysite advocates.

<* Wes *>
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Zazazu
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Re: TSR has already a Workshop for CC...
« Reply #87 on: 2009 June 03, 00:59:56 »
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Arguments seem to erupt with frequency here.
Arguments? At MATY? Naw.
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Re: TSR has already a Workshop for CC...
« Reply #88 on: 2009 June 03, 05:33:31 »
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Lots of technical stuff

That said, I've never experimented much with vector texturing, and that does explain being able to change the colour without eating insane amounts of memory. It's possible the vectors are rasterised but still quite small, which would cause the blur. If vectors were used in Splotch I'd be inclined to think they'd use a similar system for Sims 3, although Splotch wasn't quite so blurry to me.

If it's materials, then it's going to be quite difficult to take out of game - usually materials are set by the software, rather than by an external file, unless Sims allows access to its material/shader files?

It looks like the vector texture theory was correct:

http://linna.modthesims.info/download.php?t=343036
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haifen
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Re: TSR has already a Workshop for CC...
« Reply #89 on: 2009 June 03, 05:44:54 »
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I had to laugh a little when all the fuss blew up over TSR stealing other peoples work and claiming it as their own, because it's not far removed from what people have been doing by pirating TSR content.  However, 2 wrongs do not a right make.


*delurk*

This was the issue when that mts2 account got hacked right? Where a 'creator' for TSR first downloaded a custom mesh from mts2, made some recolours, put them up for sale on TSR and then said mts2 account just happens to get hacked and their files, free mesh included, gets deleted and is thus only 'available' on TSR?
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wes_h
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Re: TSR has already a Workshop for CC...
« Reply #90 on: 2009 June 03, 18:17:49 »
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It looks like the vector texture theory was correct:

Actually, they are talking about using vector drawing tools to make patterns with.
The patterns are multiple DDS files, which are just raster grpahics, using color channels on one to define the zones.
Everything at the engine level is standard game graphics and UV mapping, except that the textures are built from multiple layers, and colors are added in predefined zones based on the color values that were specified for that zone.
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Merlin
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Re: TSR has already a Workshop for CC...
« Reply #91 on: 2009 June 03, 22:30:40 »
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Wes_h, I heard you have already exported a mesh out of the game and stuff like that? That is great! (:


And about TSR, again, they are liars.
They just took famous names for their Workshop to publish it.


Here's their embarrassing edit:

QUOTE BY T$R

Edit to clarify: The Open Source team are working on the code that will allow us and other websites to develop software to support Sims 3 Custom Content. They aren't working on the TSR Workshop directly, they are working on the generic libraries that as Open Source, anybody can use. /Steve

Edit no 2: Those names mentioned above was a list of modders supporting open source in the past. All have acknowledged their participation in Sims 3 and this project with the exception of Mootilda and Atavera (thus their names are removed). We're sorry for the confusion!

http://www.thesimsresource.com/news/view-post/post/11576


Ridiculous...and stupid.
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wes_h
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Re: TSR has already a Workshop for CC...
« Reply #92 on: 2009 June 04, 00:19:49 »
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Yes, I admit to having posted a modified glasses mesh Tuesday, and some MilkShape plugins, godsons of UniMesh, they are. I may be a one-trick pony, but I know that one well by now.

With things like chat, there are opportunities for developers to communicate information on a transient basis. Someone probably mentioned some names in a 'conversation' that might not have been meant to be published like that. There may be more names that weren't mentioned, ones that you know well. All have contributed a lot of knowledge and discoveries, over years of time for many, and have helped a lot of people learn new skills.

If TSR does what they claim they are going to do, release source for the libraries and offer use of the tool freely, then they will have done a good thing, even if for self-serving purposes. If they don't, it will validate the suspicions of many posters. Being how I am, I will wait and see, and continue executing my own personal agenda, which is pretty much to do all I did before for TS2, but better this time.

<* Wes *>
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brownlustgirl
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Re: TSR has already a Workshop for CC...
« Reply #93 on: 2009 June 04, 00:30:04 »
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I truly appreciate your work. Wish I had the brains to help.
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Owlbear
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Re: TSR has already a Workshop for CC...
« Reply #94 on: 2009 June 04, 01:07:54 »
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Inge was driven away from the Sims community once before by ungrateful assholes who demanded things of her.  I know it's naive to hope that people will learn from experience, but Melvin, could you please not tick off the nice lady who makes the wonderful mods?

"Hand."  "Bite."  "You."  "Feeds."  "Don't."  "The."  "That."  Make a sentence using these words. Wink
 
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SciBirg
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Re: TSR has already a Workshop for CC...
« Reply #95 on: 2009 June 04, 01:15:33 »
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Inge was driven away from the Sims community once before by ungrateful assholes who demanded things of her.  I know it's naive to hope that people will learn from experience, but Melvin, could you please not tick off the nice lady who makes the wonderful mods?

"Hand."  "Bite."  "You."  "Feeds."  "Don't."  "The."  "That."  Make a sentence using these words. Wink
 


Couldn't agree more.
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Re: TSR has already a Workshop for CC...
« Reply #96 on: 2009 June 04, 01:23:02 »
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Reposting because it got buried at the bottom of the last page:

I'd be in favor of not badgering the folks who may produce shinies for us. And an addendum:

If you don't like it, learn to do what they do, and then feel free to withhold that ability on your own terms.
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Re: TSR has already a Workshop for CC...
« Reply #97 on: 2009 June 10, 18:20:12 »
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Personally I just got bored with the paysite issue and I am treating TSR owners/modders like I would any other site owner/modder.   I would have thought that had sunk in at least a year ago (for those who could be bothered to notice my views) when I concluded that the anti-paysite movement was having no significant effect on the pay/free distribution of game content, and was simply stirring up hatred and distrust and therefore having a nett negative effect on the community.

I know you will hate me now, but for me that is support. Though as you said you're tired talking about the free/pay fed, I can 'understand' somehow your decision although I'm a bit shocked that you're sharing information and help them with that to create their 'exclusive' workshop.

Thanks for this answer!
This lousy excuse just confirms that I'm absolutely right with my presumptions (or better: facts)...  Wink

Someone needs a bit of a lesson in logic.  I suppose insofar as Inge provides information to modders at TSR which is helpful, she is supporting them.  However, she is not doing this exclusively, IIRC.  She has clearly indicated she is extending the same courtesy to modders there as she would to any modder who sought her expertise.  I would think there might be an issue if she was withholding her learnings from anyone except TSR, but she is not doing this.  She is, in my view, being community minded and has indicated that her learnings are available to modders wherever they are.  This supports the community at large more than TSR.  Therefore, the Merlin presumptions are wrong, and not even approaching facts.

By all means feel free to express haet/raeg at TSR, but making innuendo and accusatory statements at MATY should be backed up by much more solid argumention than is demonstrated by Merlin.


That's ok Merlin, it's your brain, you have to organise it how it suits you best Smiley

WIN!  I love the understated elegance of this remark.
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bwetherell
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Re: TSR has already a Workshop for CC...
« Reply #98 on: 2009 June 10, 23:52:31 »
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I'm so hoping that MTS (f.e.) will be quicker than them...
Do we know if MTS will be running from MTS2 site... of will there be a new one? And is so, its it up and running? I haven't seen anything.

If you haven't seen it already.. http://modthesims.info/showthread.php?t=315753
the site is now modthesims.info

You're stilll able to get to it by modthesims2.com. There is a bunch of sections for the Sims 3 in the navigation.
Hope I helped.
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Re: TSR has already a Workshop for CC...
« Reply #99 on: 2009 June 11, 00:13:38 »
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"The Capitalists will sell us the rope with which we will hang them."  -- V. Lenin

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