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tunaisafish
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MTYEWTKA Enthusiasm
« on: 2008 October 20, 10:14:40 »
THANKS THIS IS GREAT

More than you ever wanted to know about Enthusiasm.

I compiled lots of info about how enthusiasm works while working on a hack.
Not the stuff you can normally find out by playing, but the stuff you find by searching through the code.
Searching websites often find the same incorrect data.

A few surprises, some horrid bugs, lots of EA laziness exposed.

In the attached file...

What the OTH means?
THE HOBBY LOT
TIME TO GAIN A POINT
OTHER SIDE EFFECTS OF ENTHUSIASM GAIN/LOSS
RELEVANT SKILLS AND INTERESTS
HOW DOES THE GAME CHOOSE THE OTH
SIM INTERESTS
GLOBAL ENTHUSIASM CALLS
And Finally, "THE DATA".  What hobby objects/activities are related to, and how fast they work.

* MTYEWTKA_Enthusiasm.txt (25.7 KB - downloaded 1715 times.)
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PirateFaafy
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Re: MTYEWTKA Enthusiasm
« Reply #1 on: 2008 October 23, 01:19:35 »
THANKS THIS IS GREAT

Baa! This is totally more than I ever wanted to know. Thank you muchly!

I totally never knew that hobby enthusiasm built/destroyed interests - but that makes total sense, and I've actually pondered this. I would've gone a step further, and just made such things improve/be based on interests. I also never knew that nearby Sims could gain enthusiasm. I'm quite surprised that EAxis was this creative when doing this. If only they'd pay this much attention to everything else.

I was a bit confused about this part:

0x0617 7F9FDDF5: Na 0x023A Interaction - Feed (0x1002)
0x0617 7F9FDDF5: Na 0x023A Interaction - Milk (0x1022)


Then I realized it was the cow plant!  Kiss I love my Darwin, so useful for townies!
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tunaisafish
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Re: MTYEWTKA Enthusiasm
« Reply #2 on: 2008 October 23, 15:55:35 »
THANKS THIS IS GREAT

I totally never knew that hobby enthusiasm built/destroyed interests - but that makes total sense, and I've actually pondered this. I would've gone a step further, and just made such things improve/be based on interests.
It was the messing with interests that first made me want to change the way it worked, then it grew from there as I found more annoying things.
Have you seen my enthusiasm mod in Peasantry? (plug plug).  Very much interest driven Smiley

The whole enthusiasm code looks like it was copied from skilling.  Still some stuff in there that does nothing.
It was designed for skilling though, and not enthusiasm.  As a result you lose the rate bonus's the higher you go up the levels in part of the code.
(In integer math, adding 50% to 1 is 1.  This never happened in skilling as the IQ is always multiples of 100.)

Yeah, the enthusiasm absorption part was different.  As you say, lots of thought in there.  After seeing what the ppl had in mind for enthusiasm gain, it was
disapointing to see little variation in the Base Rates.  Some sections seem to have more thought in than others.  Whoever plugged the values in for Games, at least made 'doing' more value than just 'watching'.  Then you see something like the trainset which costs heaps (money and space) and doesn't provide any other skilling benefit and still has crappy rates.  Perhaps when more are uncovered, we'll see some things with a higher rate than the hobby mag or blogging.

Anyhow... I missed a section.  Here for the person that asked me on IRC.
I've not updated the file with this yet.  So no need to download it again.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
WHAT HAPPPENS IN THE ZONE

As soon as a sim reaches level 10 in a hobby, they go into 'the zone' when they
pursue it.

You hear the zone fanfare, and see the white glow.
Some long running activities also have custom sound and visual effects.
eg. A FilmLit sim in the zone and reading a novel - music appropriate to the type of novel.


Those are the obvious things, now the hidden...

MOTIVE DECAY
For long running activities only, the sim also experiences a slower decay rate
of motives.  These add to the adjustments they may have already from LTA superpowers.
The amounts are...

NRG, Hyg        15
Hun, Bla, Soc   30
Com, Fun        40

These are flat adjustments, not percentage adjustments.  So how much these effect your
sim depends on their life stage and superpowers.
If you use Pes's ffslotdebugger, you can see the currents motive levels (-100 to 100),
the amount they decay per day, and the adjustment figures .

These adjustments are small in comparison to the faster rates that different game objects
have.  eg.  The restorable car decreases hygiene. A sim in the zone will still end up dirtier.

The 2 enthusiam 'boost' methods don't bother with the decay adjustments.  They don't last long
enough to have any real effect anyway.

TODO: Mystery value 50.  in LUA.

LEVEL 11
Enthusiasm still increases.
Although there is no 11th bar, the enthusiasm value increases up to 10.99 ~ Near enough 11 bars.
This is so that you do not lose that 10th point as soon as you finish the activity.
The rate of enthusiam gain once you reach level 10 is the same as for level 0.
ie. Using a BR 100 object with no bonus's would fill up to level 11 in 160 mins.
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J. M. Pescado
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Re: MTYEWTKA Enthusiasm
« Reply #3 on: 2008 October 23, 19:04:00 »
THANKS THIS IS GREAT

MOTIVE DECAY
For long running activities only, the sim also experiences a slower decay rate
of motives.  These add to the adjustments they may have already from LTA superpowers.
The amounts are...

NRG, Hyg        15
Hun, Bla, Soc   30
Com, Fun        40

These are flat adjustments, not percentage adjustments.
LTA motive decays are percentage adjustments. As far as I can tell, +15 to those means -15% off base decay. If you can somehow achieve 100 or more, that motive does not decay. However, it's possible that "drain" from actions still applies.
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PirateFaafy
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Re: MTYEWTKA Enthusiasm
« Reply #4 on: 2008 October 23, 22:03:31 »
THANKS THIS IS GREAT

I totally never knew that hobby enthusiasm built/destroyed interests - but that makes total sense, and I've actually pondered this. I would've gone a step further, and just made such things improve/be based on interests.
The whole enthusiasm code looks like it was copied from skilling.  Still some stuff in there that does nothing.
It was designed for skilling though, and not enthusiasm.  As a result you lose the rate bonus's the higher you go up the levels in part of the code.
(In integer math, adding 50% to 1 is 1.  This never happened in skilling as the IQ is always multiples of 100.)

Good grief! They used integer math with percentages? Booooooo.
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Re: MTYEWTKA Enthusiasm
« Reply #5 on: 2008 October 23, 22:10:33 »
THANKS THIS IS GREAT

There is no such thing as a floating point number in Sims BHAV code, so yes. Anything involving fractions is thus performed either in LUA or hardcode, as 16-bit signed integer math has very limiting applications. For instance, trying to take a percentage of a number which may be bigger than 327 is a bad plan, the typical solution to percentages on integers is X * PCT / 100, so if you try to take a percentage like, say, 99% of 500, you get 500 * 99 = 49500 (overflow! turns into -15931), then divided by 100, which yields te totally gibberish value of -159. If you try to divide by 100 first, then you destroy any data more precise than 100, resulting in 1% of 599 being "5".

As a result, such calculations end having to be done in LUA. Trying to do sims-math is a pain in the neck.
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Grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I cannot accept, and the wisdom to hide the bodies of those I had to kill because they pissed me off.
tunaisafish
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Re: MTYEWTKA Enthusiasm
« Reply #6 on: 2008 October 24, 03:27:23 »
THANKS THIS IS GREAT

LTA motive decays are percentage adjustments. As far as I can tell, +15 to those means -15% off base decay. If you can somehow achieve 100 or more, that motive does not decay. However, it's possible that "drain" from actions still applies.

I'll correct that, thanks.  Makes the values much more significant then.

I have a sim that's close to reaching 100.  Has 49 accumulated on 4 motives from LTA's. 37 on the others.  In the zone he reaches 89 adj of Fun.
This sim hardly ever sleeps! He's an active YA with 2 NRG bonus's.  The ffslotdebugger is telling me it's -164/d with an adjustment of 49.
Almost makes me want a sleeping pill hack.
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Re: MTYEWTKA Enthusiasm
« Reply #7 on: 2008 October 24, 05:22:24 »
THANKS THIS IS GREAT

I have a sim that's close to reaching 100.  Has 49 accumulated on 4 motives from LTA's. 37 on the others.  In the zone he reaches 89 adj of Fun.
A decay adjustment to fun tends to have no meaningful value at all, since hobby actions frequently grant fun on their own. As fun will thus be automatically restored just by being in the action, it really has no meaningful effect if fun decay over time stops entirely.

This sim hardly ever sleeps! He's an active YA with 2 NRG bonus's.  The ffslotdebugger is telling me it's -164/d with an adjustment of 49.
Almost makes me want a sleeping pill hack.
Well, having half-off energy means he decays at like 80-odd energy a day. This means works out to sleeping maybe once every 3 days, and you can drop that to about 4 with Physiology's -25% off. The energizer bunny, he just keeps going and going and going. Besides, a lot of hobbies also carry intrinsic energy drain, which bypasses decay mitigation, so it's not so much. Besides, SLEEP IS FOR WUSSIES! My sims are all developing chronic insomnia anyway due to Physiology.
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Grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I cannot accept, and the wisdom to hide the bodies of those I had to kill because they pissed me off.
tunaisafish
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Re: MTYEWTKA Enthusiasm
« Reply #8 on: 2008 October 25, 07:26:27 »
THANKS THIS IS GREAT

Hmmm... that same sim is supposed to have studied physiology too.
Think he must have missed out on the 25% bonus when he did that.

More info for the file...

--------------------------------------------------------------------
ENTHUSIASM DECAY

Each hour, while your sim is at home or on the hobby lot, all enthusiasm values decrease.
If you sim is engaged in a hobby activity at this time then that one hobby will be skipped.

The decay rates vary depending on the enthusiasm level

Enthusiasm   Decay   Hours to depleat
Bars Shown   /hour   a full bar
 0 - 4        1%       100 hours
 5 - 9        2%        50 hours
 10           5%        20 hours

If the decay would cause your sim to lose an enthusiasm point, no decay occurs if your sim has
some of the 'grace period' left.  Any activity that changes the enthusiasm value resets the
grace period to 6 hours.  Meaning that your sim would never lose a point so long as some hobby
activity was done each 6 hours.

When enthusiasm does decay, the enthusiasm loss dialog is displayed if your sim has lost one
whole point worth since their last activity.  This is displayed only once and does not necessarily
correspond to the time when your sim drops down a level.  ie. if you had 4.5 bars of enthusiasm
and then never touched that hobby again, you would get one warning at 3.5 bars.
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