Just letting everyone know I have a new version of the Legacy Challenge in the works. It is currently in the play testing phases and should be published within the next week or two.

Regarding the ghost baby... DO NOT WANT.

Its just...creepy. I have a feeling the whole 'ghosts' section of the Legacy Challenge will get remade to account for these...'ghosts', if not taken out entirely.

Wasn't that the point of the whole "make your own thing" thing they tried to promote, or did they reverse that out and decide that the only new content you'll get will have to be bought through the store?

I know the whole 'create a style" tool is up and running, but that is just recolors. Are they seriously limiting new custom made meshes/objects?
Or am I not understanding this correctly?

That reminds me of the old frozen arm glitch you got when you canceled a chess-playing sim's action mid-move.

Perhaps they meant to put in animations for playing air guitar (something perfectly sensible for a teenager to do) and the animation confused it with playing the real one? Just...ick!

Not if I have anything to say about it. I already have ideas for challenges just based on the broad concepts we've heard thus far, some Legacy related, some completely different. I'll make a toy of it yet! Frammit!


*edited to fix quote*

Is there any possibility that it might be there by design?.
One of the things that bugged me about TS2 was that any of a sim's friends/best friends could instantly be turned into lovers by a single romantic action. This new design might be there to make sure that romances start as romances, and friends stay friends past the critical point...

I'm not saying that is the best way to do things, just an observation.

Either that or it IS a indeed a bug and I've just spouted some nonsense.

What is surprising? I like the asylum challenge, for example, but would hate it if the general gameplay forced that style of play on me.


On the upside, it sounds like spares won't be quite so annoying anymore. It sounds like you can just keep your heir home and send the spares off into the world to be eaten by the time stream. No more of this 6th generation heir is best friends with a the 2nd generation aunt malarkey.

I wonder if you still get life insurance money from dead relatives that die of old age on another lot...

Enforced Legacy Play? Bleh.

I'm all for playing my own challenge and intend on making a TS3 version of it, but I do hope the game doesn't make you play like that constantly.

Is there no "time freeze" option for families not being played to prevent aging, births, deaths and the like?

I agree that these rule changes are annoying and I apologize. I'll play test my next challenge much more in depth next time.

I'm going to keep the restriction. The reason? Without it, Natural Science creates a 'perfect strategy'.

My goal was to make many different 'paths' of unlocking restrictions not only viable, but effective as well. My idea seemed to work out, as people were coming up with all sorts of combos.

Then along came the snapdragons. The snapdragons prove so powerful; they take the sting of many other restrictions. They become SO powerful that Natural Science becomes the only "Priority #1" career to unlock first. This removes a strategic dynamic of the challenge. The ability to have your motives stay in the green eliminates the sting of most of the other restrictions.  Why would you need to unlock high-fun objects, or showers... or high-level food items when you can just meditate near a snapdragon?

This change won't completely eliminate snapdragons. You can still get a lot of oomph out of bringing a pair of snapdragons home and unlocking Natural Science first. It just makes you choose them over other items if you wish to pursue that strategy. THAT is a more dynamic decision.

For now this will be added to the business restriction
"Due to supply chain cuts in the region, Sims cannot use any crafting benches. Sims may still bring home crafted items from college. Flowers and Robots must be kept in inventory until their respective restrictions are unlocked"



If you've been making items on workbenches, don't scrap your challenge. Just don't make any more until you unlock business.

With further playtesting I found that snapdragons are utterly broken and make the challenge way too easy. However, my intent is not to squash the strategies of those who were clever enough to fill their houses with snapdragons.


I'm thinking of adding the following to the Business restriction
"Due to lack of supply chains, you cannot use any work benches"

You would be able to bring home 1 or 2 snapdragons from college and keep them in inventory until you unlock Natural Science...but you would also need to unlock business to be able to manufacture them and fill the house.


Those that started with a house full of snapdragons wouldn't have to change or delete them... just follow the proposed rule going forward.

This also adds another couple teeth to the business restriction, which could benefit from a little harshening. What does everyone think?

Anything that lets you get around the fugly hair styles and awful clothing is an unfair advantage. Part of the pain of the Show Business restriction is having to look at fugly sims.

It says specifically that aspiration rewards brought back by the founder can be used. The idea being is that you can use them, even though the knowledge of how they are made is gone. With a shower, you can't use them because there is no clean running water.


Having a sim meditate just before death is a viable strategy. I made a basement with no stairs for my test family and had elders close to death meditate and teleport down there to die.
If a sim dies in a bad spot, you still can't move the marker until you have lifted Paranormal. If they die blocking a vital area, you'll just have to re-arrange the house around it.


Snapdragons cannot be used or placed on the lot until Natural Science is lifted. The idea being that NO plants can survive anywhere until the natural scientist invents the soil converter to allow plant life again. This is why Natural Science also restricts the Slacker career reward.

That settles it, I will NOT be changing the Life of Crime restriction to this. I will be posting an easier way to calculate it so that you pay the same amount of $ as you do currently, but without having to sell and re-buy all the objects in the house.

In play testing, I'm finding the life of crime restriction to have two problems: It is not too harsh and it is complex.

I have a proposal to fix both problems, but before I make this a rule, I'd like this board's opinion.
This is not an official rule. If implemented, your current Apocalypse families would still be fine. You would just start using this in place of the old life of crime restriction.


The mob has gotten greedier, nastier. They realize they have everything to gain.
Once per week by midnight, exit to the neighborhood screen.
Open the cheat box
Type in Familyfunds <your family name> 0
You may sell and re-buy your fridge before the mob takes all of the family's money.
Rather than basing their protection demands on your objects, they simply rob you blind.

The restriction on the lie finder would remain the same as the official rules.

Lifting the restriction would stop the mob payments, just like it does now.

What do you think?

Again: This is just a proposal. I'm getting community feedback before doing any major rules changes.

If you already did a Uni business, then keep going with the challenge. Because it's not yet on the offical site, you don't need to call it a broken rule. The site should be updated today.
It's just easier to say "no businesses in Uni"

If you are keen on opening a business early, then have an early generation unlock the business restriction.


1. Once a restriction is lifted, it is permanently lifted. She can come home from college, lift a restriction then move out and you would be fine.
2. None of her children could lift restrictions. Only one sim per generation can be an heir, and only their children can unlock restrictions. The heir's sibilings can also unlock restrictions, but their children cannot.

One exception (and I'll post this on the offical site) Alien babies can always lift a restriction, regardless of who produced them. (must be pregnancy by abduction)

3. The moment a sim becomes playable, even if you don't play them, they become a player-sim

4. They need not marry. Just keep in mind they must be that generation's one spouse to lift a restriction.

5. If they pass out wake them up and you'll be fine.
The rule serves both a flavor text and balance purpose. It prevents people from making "furniture on the ground" houses, and any sim sleeping outdoors would most likely die of exposure.

1. You don't need to time sync College and home. Just remember which generation the Sim(s) in college belong to, and keep in mind the 1 spouse per generation rule still applies to them.

2. You can eat food made by a cook on a Uni lot without unlocking business. Business prohibits you from hiring service sims, but if they're there already you didn't hire them.

3. You can only have 1 computer on the lot. You may purchase a 2nd computer for the college lot... however you must leave it there when the sims graduate.

4. YAs from the same family can combine onto the same lot. No other sims may move into this college lot. ONLY sims from the family can combine into it. Future spouses are still prohibited from joining the lot as they were with the founder.

5. The moment you move a townie teen into college they become a player-sim... and thus they cannot join the family.




Regarding school. The school-at-home object would fall under the 'mods that give an unfair advantage over those who don't have it'.

In the next update, I'll be putting up some more flavor text explaining why the school system is operational.

I'm going to stick with my ruling on 8 semester strict timeline for Uni. If maxing all skills is easy, and money is a non-issue for an Awesome player such as yourself, then you shouldn't need any extra time. For us less awesome players, well, that just makes the challenge all the harder. Being a cruelly hard challenge is what the Apocalypse is all about 


Now about those snapdragons.... (just kidding).

Using the fridge to "Make one" ...."Group Meals"...."Hamburgers" is a way to grill burgers during the AM hours. I almost never make cerial...it spoils to quickly.




Your point about the long time at uni is a valid one. Tell me, can you skillbuild while on those off-lot businesses?



Also: About life of crime. I agree that even with the $100 or less exemption, it's still annoying.
Give me a little time to come up with a fair % to knock off the family's networth and I'll allow you to familyfunds it rather than selling everything. You'll still be able to replace the fridge to refill it.

In regards to the social worker... I admit there would be no 'social services' in an apocalyptic world. However, leaving young children by themselves is also a BAD idea, in a post apocalyptic world. There are much nastier things than little Timmy getting a bump on his head...like little Timmy wandering out and getting eaten by zombies or little Timmy trying to build a snowman out of the toxic ash.

Keep the social worker for this challenge... and pretend a parent needs to stay home just to keep the infant/toddler/children alive.
Maybe someone could make a mod where the grim reaper replaces the social worker when the kids get taken away.

In regards to the mid-game rules change. I don't like to do this, and for little tricks and work-arounds I chalk that up to player creativity.
However, spending effectively unlimited time in Uni kind of defeats the purpose. Several restrictions fall by the wayside if the founder comes home from college with an ungodly amount of money and powerful business perks under their belt. Don't expect me to make any more major rules shifts like that again. Just little tweaks and clarifications.

Next time I come up with a challenge, I'll be using you guys as my play testers. This board has a sharp wit for spotting loopholes.

3. How can you move back in if you never moved out?
I don't get it.

4. No. Think of moving someone in via Ressurection as just another flavor of marry/move in. If it is allowed for marrying and moving in, it's allowed for Ressurection. If it's restricted for marrage/moving in...it's restricted for Ressurection.

1. The Tongue (the part that touches the sidewalk and the space beyond onto the street) does NOT have to be part of the 8X8 area, but the rest of the driveway must be. See my "Witch Hut" safe house for how to include a driveway in an 8X8 area.
2. No
3. If they moved out via 'find own place' no. if they are returning from college. Yes.
4. Ressurection counts as moving a sim in. You could ressurect in a sim they would become a spouse to the family. Otherwise they can't move in (Remember, ONLY would-be spouses that are earmarked to bring in the next generation can be moved into the family)


In light of the potential abuse of the time-freeze of a Uni business, I'm going to rule that you may not own an off-lot business in Uni. Not because you couldn't for story purposes, but because the idea of the Apocalypse is that it happens at a specific point of time. Specifically: Graduation. The idea of Uni is that you are racing against a ticking clock, one that you cannot stop.

In regards to academic probation, I'm going to rule that you may only play 8 full semesters in Uni. Thats how long you have until the power plants blow. If you go on academic probation, that counts as one of the 8 semesters...forcing you to drop out when you reach 8. You must pass each semester in order to graduate.

You can make townies, as long as their careers, skills and friend totals are all random.

You can find the safe houses plus some stock zombies to download at my simpage
http://thesims2.ea.com/mysimpage/mysimpage.php?user_id=131247

Oh bugger. Forgot to put the "NPCs or Townies" restriction in the main rules. Thats going up on the next update.

Only townies or NPCs can join the family. It's too easy to make player sims at the top of the careers you want unlocked with maxed skills to allow player sims to be married in.

Yes you can buy and use a fridge, any fridge. In fact the one GOOD thing the Life of Crime restriction does for you is re-fills the fridge every time you pay protection. The mob is kind enough to bring you food on pay day... so you can live just long enough to pay them next week.
Once you unlock the Crime restriction, you'll have to make sure you have some other way of obtaining food.

Here are a few other clairifications posted on other boards:


1. Regarding spouses: Only 1 spouse per generation can unlock a restriction, period. This spouse must contribute to the birth of the next generation. You may unlock the restriction before the next generation is born, but they must be the one to help bring on the next generation. The only exception to this rule is if the next generation is brought by alien pregnancy.
2. Spouses can keep their current job if they have one. If they are at the top of their career field, they instantly unlock that restriction (provided they are that generation's one spouse)
3. Regarding Law enforcement. I realize my goof. Yes teens can still go to school. They just can't get part time jobs or visit community lots without a 10 body.
4. The items that spouses bring may be added to the house. In fact, unless you have unlocked the athletic restriction, you must place those items until the spouse is holding 3 or fewer. It doesn't matter if you can use those items or not. If you place them on the lot, they'll begin to depreciate and you'll have to pay more protection money on them. Every spouse you move in could be a liability (Picture a spouse that brings 2 pianos and 2 DJ tables) until you unlock athletic (so they can hold onto all the items they bring) or business (so you can sell all the excess items).
5. Aspiration Reward objects may be among the 3 that the founder takes home with them. The reward objects would have to be purchased with the founder's own aspiration points. Career reward objects, found at the secret society lot, may NOT be taken back, as your founder did not earn them.
6. You can woohoo all you want in college, since the medical restriction (or any other restriction for that matter) doesn't apply to your founder in college.
7. Kids who return to college in later generations ARE under the restrictions.
8. Since there are no 'weeks' in college, Sims (other than the founder) attending college that have not lifted the life of crime restriction must pay protection once per semester, immediately after finals. If you have more than one family member attending at the same time and in the same lot,  the household only needs to pay protection once per semester.
9. The "Can't Leave Lot without a 10 body" restriction on Law Enforcement applies to teenage sims who wish to attend college. The challenge is designed to make it hard to return to college. After all, higher learning isn't possible until society as restabilized a bit.

Not at all. The more children you can produce, the more restrictions you can lift

In my test family I was able to produce 3 children for the 2nd generation. That means 5 total restrictions unlocked, plus a 6th for spouce of one of the children.

Thats 6 out of the 15 done before the birth of the 3rd generation.