More Awesome Than You!

I have come to a point where the design of Awesomeware may come to REQUIRE a scrolly-wheel in the future, as I cannot discern what keyboard substitutes permits one to do without it. Does anyone actually NOT have one?

Scroll wheel mice are incredibly cheap - I have seen basic ones go for about £3-4 in PCWorld.

I think that if you can afford the game (*ahem* ;)) and afford the computer the play it on, then a cheapo mouse should not be a problem.
Things like that should not be a roadblock when you are trying to improve the game as you have been. If people are unwilling to pay for a mouse with a scroll wheel they don't have to use your mod, do they?

In conclusion - Sod 'em!

Why not use keyboard substitutes z and x like TS2 does? Otherwise, yeah. Mice are cheap. Are they even made without scroll wheels anymore? Even laptops have scroll wheel functions on the touchpad.

Laptops. But I'm not using one of those. So go for it! Moar shiny is moar better.

I'm a bit of a freak and use a tablet for everything(this one (http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2007/05/wacom-bamboo.jpg)) it does have a touch ring on it that I use to zoom in and out so I have the functionality without an actual mouse with a wheel.

So I may have only answered "No" to toss a wrench in the works but you did ask.

I have a scrolly-wheel on my mouse, but I do not use it.  I'm not even sure what functions it would fulfill.  Whatever they are, I don't use keyboard substitutes.  I use edge scrolling and point-click with the mouse.  Does this help?

Actually, I think TS3 still does that.  I just glanced in the game manual that someone uploaded, and under "Key Commands" it says:

Zoom in/out    Z/X or =/- or Num Pad + / Num Pad -

EDIT: And testing in the game, all three do work.

I play with the scroll wheel on the mouse, so it's no problem. I forget too much to use 'hotkeys'.

I'm afraid that requiring a scrolly-wheel could be a problem for me.  What feature is going to require it?

This is not a monetary issue for me, but an issue of ability; I am unable to use a standard mouse.

I use a trackball mouse, but functionally, it's pretty much the same as a scrolly-wheel.

I use the scroll wheel to zoom and pivot, but I wouldn't have a problem swapping to hotkeys...  unless you plan to have it dim all the lights in the living room, start up the fireplace, and set the stereo to play sexy 70s love-making music.

I have a scroll-wheel, but I hate using the feature. Over-using it can cause some sort of tendonitis-adjacent condition that has me in pain for days. I play using directional keys, z/x, number keys for speed and camera presets. Mouse is only used for commands.

On mac the scroll wheel settings can become pretty annoying for TS2 so I am not sure about TS3. I play on windows for TS3 right now, and the scroll wheel "button" works when it wants to :/

I couldn't stand to play TS2 or TS3 without my scroll wheel.  I had to, with TS2, briefly, when my old trackball-with-scrollwheel died, and having to deal with the keyboard for moving around made me grumpy. With these two games, and some others, the only times I ever touch the keyboard at all is for cheats, or to name something.  If I wanna use a keyboard to play a game, I play Nethack.  8)

I tried sims 3 on my brothers computer briefly where the scroll wheel wasn't working for some reason.  Needless to say i couldn't do anything since i use the scroll wheel for adjusting the view constantly.  I told him to fix the damn scroll wheel and well he did.

Yup, I agree completely.
 
How can anyone NOT use a scroll wheel?

As stated before, by being physically unable to use a standard mouse.

It's just my habit not to use the scroll wheel, doubtless from having a mouse with no scroll wheel for so many years.

*quietly contemplates what awesome awesomemod feature needs scrollies*

I can't think of anything. x_x


Yeah, I use my scroll wheel constantly. I could understand a backup set of keys, though; the Z X or + - combo would be awesome since there are three sets of keys that do it already. Bit excessive..

Give me scroll wheel or give me death?

To aid those who do not scroll wheel, would it be possible to have two versions of AWESOMEMOD- one for the wheel inclined and one for those stuck in the stone age?

I have discovered that the menu for the  Interaction Tones, once the list grows longer than can fit on the screen, can only be scrolled using the scrolly wheel. Z and X are not acceptable substitutes, as these keys are bound to zoom-in/zoom-out and respond as such when pressed under those conditions. Right NOW, it's not a problem at all, but I am forward-facing.

Does whatever you use have an equivalent analogous functionality? The actual presence of the wheel is not as important as the ability to issue the command. If you have a means of scrolling a page or zooming in and out without resorting to Z/X or the arrow keys, then you still have a scrolly wheel.

Then you do, in fact, have a scrolly wheel, regardless of its physical form.

Yes, I actually play without a scrolly wheel.

Hm, I have one, but I've never even thought to use it while playing a Sims game.  Shouldn't be a problem, though.

I'm on a laptop, so I don't have a scrollwheel.  I sometimes use my mouse, but the scrollwheel has been acting up lately (it will scroll, but clicking and holding it does nothing).  For scrolling, I can use the side of the pad, and for clicking and holding the scrollwheel, Sims 3 allows me to hold down both the right and the left mouse buttons.  That doesn't work in all games, though.  So basically, I have the capabilities to use a scrollwheel, but in different forms.  I hope that wouldn't be a problem.

If Awesomemod does end up needing a scrollwheel, give us a little advance notice, so that us strangeos can take care of our system.

The arrow keys or page up/page down won't work?

*has a scrolly wheel and will be happy to use it, is just curious*

As long as your laptop is capable of scrolling, it doesn't sound like it's a problem. See below.

OK, I'm stumped.  What is an interaction tone?  If this is something to do with sounds, then it's irrelevant to me since I play with sounds off.

Yes, the device has a scroll wheel; no, I cannot use it.  Well, I suppose it depends upon how often and how long I had to use it.  I certainly couldn't use it in normal play; I might be able to use it with my other hand.

Sorry to be such a bother, but if you could explain a bit more about what it will be used for, I would be better able to tell you whether it will seriously impact my ability to play.

Figured as much, but I thought it couldn't hurt to describe how my process works.  I don't know if the Sims3 coding treats it differently, since I know absolutely nothing about programming.

Tilt camera with CTRL-click-drag. Zoom with X and Z. It's actually much more precise this way, and no tendonitis.

Okay. He did explain what it's for - it's for changing the quality of work while you're on the job - the tones are the bits in the box that say things like "play golf" "suck up to boss" "work hard", etc. He's saying that if he expands that box with yet-to-come options, it may require use of the scroll wheel to access them all. He can't map it to the normal scroll hotkeys because those revert to zoom no matter what.

My opinion is such.
If you need to map something to the scrolly wheel , can you do so with an additional key? shift -scroll perhaps? I do use the mouse for most my navigation (lazy ..why yes!). Providing a means to disable said extra usage of scroll mouse is also fine by me. (yay for the config file)

I am wishing it would not permanently change the navigation method use of the scroll, that said ..sure make contextual scrolling menus.

Hell, sometimes I don't even know where my keyboard is.

Well, basically, it is used in the Interaction Tone Selector, which you see in things like how you choose how a sim behaves at work, or what special way you want them to exercise, etc. This list can be scrolled using the scrolly wheel on your mouse. It is not necessary to do this, unless the list becomes so long that it can no longer be entirely contained on a single screen, and I have no idea how large the screen may be. It will probably overload once the number of options passes about 30-ish, which is a very real possibility. This is not a PROBLEM, if you can simply scroll the list with your scrolly wheel control, but since I could not find any keyboard button that performs this functionality, if your list has 30+ active options, you are SOL without it, and will be limited to the topmost actions, the lower actions being inaccessible without using your scrolly wheel. I will try to design it such that the more esoteric options are located towards the end of the list, in case they are rendered inaccessible, and at this point, there aren't that many options anyway, but I like to plan ahead.

So far, the basic consensus I am getting is that pretty much everyone possesses scrolly wheel functionality on the computer, although not everyone actively uses it, except for your case, where you claim to be physically unable to access the functionality. More details as to how bad this is would be helpful in designing the interface. Reaching over with your other hand to manipulate the control should, in theory, serve to operate the menu, and I can try to minimize the need to do this at all, but the game does not appear to include any other keyboard alternatives.

I don't need to "map" anything. The problem is more the opposite, that the existing menu behavior is hardmapped with the scrolly wheel as the only method of accessing it, which brings up the concern of how those who lack this functionality can access it.

That's what I'm talking about: The menu is a contextual scroller menu by default. NORMALLY, the menu can never get long enough for this to MATTER, but I am concerned that this is a very real possibility that it CAN, and the length may render options unusable by those who cannot scrollywheel.

Yup.  I don't use a mouse.  I use a Logitech Trackman Wheel, I have for years, and I have replaced it many times with the same device after subjecting it to too much abuse.

Ok I get it. I can be dense at times. I say go for it.

I think that you should be able to go ahead with using the scroll wheel.  I especially like the idea of keeping the standard options near the top, so that I can just ignore the new options if it's too difficult.  Thanks so much for all of your work on this, and for considering accessibility.

I normally use a Wacom tablet, but for playing Sims 3 I have switched to a proper mouse with a scrollwheel.

Will Page Up/Down work for the ones who don't have a wheel? El Presidente, will it also work for your application?

I get very pissed off when I have to use a mouse without a scrolly-wheel.  I constantly use my scrolly-wheel.  For people who can't scrolly-wheel I feel bad for you.

I play on a laptop without a scroll wheel, but the touchpad has a scroll-wheel like function. However, it doesn't work for things where I have to actually click the mouse button (i.e. rotating the camera in TS2 and TS3-- for that, I have to press ctrl+right click).

So: scroll wheel, yes, middle mouse button, no.

I play with a scroll wheel. I used to play on a laptop without one. Never again.

I've got a scroll wheel - full speed ahead.

Thanks for all your brilliance.

I attach mice to laptops and place a "patch" over the useless touchpad. Touchpads suck, especially if you have fingernails of any length at all past the fingertip, and I don't mean talons.

It's all what you are used to, though. Some of my classmates are speed-demons with their stupid touchpads. I hate them, thus never bothered to get acclimated to them.

I avoid using mice that don't have scrollwheels. I thought they were pretty much standard now?

I have a trackball mouse with a scroll wheel. In the Sims 3 (as well as the Sims 2) the scroll wheel is used to zoom or...un-zoom. The trackball just moves the courser around. So I don't think a trackball would be able to scroll the Interaction Tone Selector window (unless, I think, one has a middle mouse key).

My laptop lacks a scrollwheel. I'm used to the touchpad now.

I play on a Mac laptop. No scrollwheel. No mouse.

I use scroll wheel all the time.

I use a scrollwheelless trackball and I can't get a new one that fits my little pudgy arthritic hand so I am praying this never wears out.  However, I am not currently using this hack so it doens't really matter :D

I use a laptop with a touchpad and, sadly, no scroll wheel - although I can attach a wireless mouse that has one if absolutely necessary.

People with laptop touch pads should really check the documentation that came with their computer. The pad may very well have a gesture associated with scrolling.

I often use it.

Two Finger swipe up/down acts as a scroll wheel

Have scrolly wheel.

I'm on a mac, but I traded my mac mouse for a random usb mouse I had lying around when I got the compy.

On a laptop but always play sims 3 and most other games with my mouse. I need my scroll wheel, I used it just now to navigate this page..

I play on both a notebook and a desktop, using a mouse with scroll wheel.  Can't seem to function 100% without the scroll wheel or a proper mouse.

 :)  I couldn't live w/out my scrolly wheel and am lost in working environments where the mice do not have them... all serious game players need to pwn the dynamics of scrolly wheels FTW !   ;D  I'm in and am very empathetic to "Simmers w/out scrolly wheels..."   :D   :-*

I use a tablet for everything. So, I don't have a scroll wheel per se. I do have a touch strip that behaves like one though. But because it's rather touchy for the Sims, I tend not to use it.

I do not use a mouse but a track ball which I have used for years, my track ball does not have scroll wheel.  However I also have a track ball with a scroll wheel because when I play the Sims 2 I found I need a scroll ability on the mouse for the gunmans camera hack and I also needed the scroll for NWN 1 & 2 when I build (neverwinter nights).  I currently have both pluged in so I can use the scroll wheel on the other trackball without having to give up the track ball I like using.

If that's a Logitech trackball you have (with the two buttons), and if you have the Logitech software installed, you can mimic the scroll wheel by clicking on both buttons simultaneously.

I rely on the scroll wheel heavily for quick navigation and tilt adjustments in conjunction with edge scrolling. The camera would drive me bat shit insane without those two options.

I do have "scroll" functionality on my laptop touchpad, by running a finger along the right edge of the pad. I never actually use it, but I'm sure I could learn if I do end up getting TS3. Of course, I would probably have to replace my current computer anyway to run TS3.

No scroll wheel in the house for any computer.  LOL, hadn't given this a thought until this poll.

Understood that this mod might eventually require the use of one and will reevaluate at that time.  Your responses indicate you are doing the best you can with the design but that there are going to be parameters within which you are going to have to work.