Building/Upgrading a PC for TS2

[witch]

Cool, Thanks!  Now I just have to remember to ask my Mom to come babysit while I install.  Little one year old hands do not help the innards of computers.  And she screams bloody murder when I type (like now)!  The act itself breaks her little heart.

The key to dealing with screaming babies is to give them something to scream about. Once they realize that their screaming only brings them more pain, they'll stop doing it.

Nah, doesn't work, they don't react logically, they just panic and scream more.

hehe bit like sims really...

[J. M. Pescado]

Nah, doesn't work, they don't react logically, they just panic and scream more.

Sure it does. It gives them something to be worth screaming about. Screaming is much less annoying when you're the one causing the screaming. Because if they're going to scream anyway, why not give them something worth screaming over?

[witch]

You did originally say they'd stop screaming - I assure you, they won't. 

[SpaceDoll]

You're a mean mean man, J.M. Pescado.    The secret to dealing with babies is being sneaky, not violent.  Really, ninja skills are more important than brawn.  And also shiney things help a lot.  The art of distraction is essential.  Thus, with your gleaming bald head and fuzzy beard, Jane would find you ultimately more entertaining just sitting there with a scowl than when wielding a whip, or whatever it is you wield.  She would also like very much to bite your cat.

Now that my card and memory are in, the Sims is beautiful!  It is truly amazing how fast everything is now.  The Neighborhood screen, in particular, is whiplash inducing.  I hit the arrows and whoosh, zoom, there it all was.  And in the house there is no more freezing, even with everything on high, even smoothing. I never could adjust smoothing before.  And there is no pause when changing floors, which before I hadn't even really noticed.  Thanks Hegelian, Dr. Beast, KittKitt and everyone else for all your help!

[KittKitt]

You're a mean mean man, J.M. Pescado. 
[...]
Thanks Hegelian, Dr. Beast, KittKitt and everyone else for all your help!

You do know you're only feeding his anti-ego, hmm?  It's something like anti-matter, only it really could consume the whole universe if it ever grew large and unstable enough. 

And YW.  Glad everything went smoothly and TS2 is running in kind. 

-Kitt

[songsmith]

*Computer Illiterate Alert*

We were going to wait until Vista came out, but it looks like our video card on our Del lDimension 4600 is dying. Rather than just replace that, we decided to buy the new machine now. Problem is, we've had this one since 2000 and I am way out of the loop for what's needed. We upgraded the Dell to 2 Gig RAM, but we're running on an old Sound Blaster 5.1 Live Audio card and an NVidia GEForce FX 5200. Ancient, huh? I need to come out of the stone age, but I don't know where to start. I read the previous posts, but most of it is completely over my head (see first line above).

Obviously, I want my machine to play the Sims. We also picked up Oblivion. This antiquated machine has never been able to run it, so we definitely want a new machine to do so!

I want to stay away from Dell and Gateway if at all possible. Problem is, I'm not sure what manufacturers are out there that are good. I thought maybe HP? We lack the know-how to put a machine together on our own, so we need to rely on a manufacturer. Is there a place that will build a machine for you if I ordered a motherboard and everything else separately? Did I even say that right?

Thanks in advance.

[KatEnigma]

We like HP here, for pre-fab machines. They are also less expensive than Dell for anything other than your absolutely basic machine, which you don't want anyway.  You can either order on-line or buy from Circuit City, Best Buy, etc.  Circuit City always has some good deals going on HP's.

Since you can't choose things like your motherboard or case on a computer like that, your 3 main concerns need to be Processor, RAM, and Video Card. Especially since all new machines come with 100+ GB Hard Drives. 

For a processor, I prefer a dual core, that means either an Intel Core 2 Duo or an AMD X2. I like AMD's, but it's not like Intel processors are bad, it's just personal preference.  If you can only afford a single core, just remember to avoid an AMD Sempron or an Intel Celeron processor like the plague. 

For RAM, well you already know that at least 2 GB is best. LOL 

For video cards, most pre-fab machines come with integrated ones but the new machines usually have PCI-E slots. What I would do is get one with the fastest processor and most RAM I could find, never mind about the stock card, and then replace it with an ATI Radeon X1-something. Although, if you order from HP.Com, you can customize the d4650e to include an X1600 XT. I only suggest ATI over Nvidia because there have been soooooo many problems with TS2 and Nvidia drivers over the last year.  Given a fresh choice, save yourself headaches and go with ATI.


If you want to have one built, it's easy enough to have done. CompUsa, for instance, will build it for free if you buy all the parts from them.  Monarchcomputers.com charges a flat fee for it, which isn't overly expensive. If you go that route, I highly suggest paying the extra money for a Raptor 10,000 RPM Hard Drive. They are small, but you can always add a huge regular 7200 one for cheap, for storing data. The faster hard drive has made a world of difference in how quickly my game loads or Sims change clothes or buy clothes, change appearances, etc.  Especially with my zillion downloads.  If you go that route, I'd also suggest going to someplace like CompUsa, where you can talk to live people who can help you make the decisions. The only extra thing you'd need to insist on is at least a 450w power supply. I use the 520w OCZ power supply, and the design on it alone has lowered my system temperature by 10ºC.  OCZ also makes the least expensive RAM AND the RAM with the lowest latencies (so it reacts faster, making for a smoother gameplay) and their customer service is spectacular, so don't think you have to stick with Crucial or someone else expensive just to get RAM you can rely on.

[Hegelian]

Yes, HP/Compaq is a reliable manufacturer, and competitively priced at the moment. You can customize a PC on their Web site or buy a pre-configured system from a place like Newegg. Or you could try one of the boutique builders—Falcon Northwest has some interesting options.

Buying components at retail and then paying someone to assemble the machine will not be cost-effective. Few of the parts in your current machine would be useable if you buy a new motherboard. However, there are independent local PC builders in many towns, and since they use the same standard parts you would buy yourself from Newegg, they aren't really a risk, although they might not be able to match the prices of a big operation like HP which buys components in enormous quantities at a substantial discount.

For a processor, I prefer a dual core, that means either an Intel Core 2 Duo or an AMD X2. I like AMD's, but it's not like Intel processors are bad, it's just personal preference.  If you can only afford a single core, just remember to avoid an AMD Sempron or an Intel Celeron processor like the plague. 

To date, the new Core 2 CPUs are outperforming by a wide margin anything from AMD in any given price category. This may change over the next 12 months, but for now Intel is once again the big dog in town.

[KatEnigma]

For a processor, I prefer a dual core, that means either an Intel Core 2 Duo or an AMD X2. I like AMD's, but it's not like Intel processors are bad, it's just personal preference.  If you can only afford a single core, just remember to avoid an AMD Sempron or an Intel Celeron processor like the plague. 

To date, the new Core 2 CPUs are outperforming by a wide margin anything from AMD in any given price category. This may change over the next 12 months, but for now Intel is once again the big dog in town.

I'm still brand loyal. Easy to be, I suppose, when I'm not personally in the market for a processor, except maybe to replace my socket 939 3800 with the 4800 while I can find one    AMD was good to me for too many years to abandom them as soon as Intel finally figures out how to produce a fast processor at a reasonable price. 

[DrBeast]

Now that my card and memory are in, the Sims is beautiful!  It is truly amazing how fast everything is now.  The Neighborhood screen, in particular, is whiplash inducing.  I hit the arrows and whoosh, zoom, there it all was.  And in the house there is no more freezing, even with everything on high, even smoothing. I never could adjust smoothing before.  And there is no pause when changing floors, which before I hadn't even really noticed.  Thanks Hegelian, Dr. Beast, KittKitt and everyone else for all your help!

Heh, if you're this surprised (and pleased) with the results of this (mediocre, truth be told) upgrade, wait till you get to play the game on your new rig! 

[Hegelian]

Obviously, I want my machine to play the Sims. We also picked up Oblivion.

From what I've been reading, the ATI boards have a clear advantage over equivalent nVidia boards in Oblivion. Plus, the X1000-series boards can simultaneously perform both high dynamic-range lighting and anti-aliasing, whereas with nVidia it's one or the other. nVidia is not necessarily the technology leader at this point in time.

I'm still brand loyal. Easy to be, I suppose, when I'm not personally in the market for a processor, except maybe to replace my socket 939 3800 with the 4800 while I can find one    AMD was good to me for too many years to abandom them as soon as Intel finally figures out how to produce a fast processor at a reasonable price. 

I tend not to be. Although to date I have had almost all Intel CPUs (there was that Cyrix many years ago, and the Motorola in the Franklin Ace), but that was based on performance, not only of the CPU itself but also of the supporting chipset—Intel chipsets (and drivers) are always rock-solid, and, of course, engineered for their CPUs, while the third-party chipsets for AMD CPUs have not always been reliable. Nonetheless, if I had had the money to build a new PC six months ago, I would have chosen an Athlon 64. Today, however, it would defnitely be an Intel Core 2.

This isn't sports:  brand loyalty basically means loyalty to a corporation and its management (oh wait, I guess it is just like pro sports). I used Diamond graphics boards for a long time, and then 3dfx, 3DLabs, and Matrox. The ATI board I had was awful. But Diamond started turning out crap products and then disappeared (merged with S3, switched to consumer electronics under the SonicBlue brand, and eventually went bankrupt), while Matrox dropped out of the consumer board market (no DX9 boards), and so I took a chance on an ATI 9800 Pro, and was more than happy. So that's where I am now. As long as ATI offers a high-performance product at a good price, I probably won't change (and I have non-performance issues with nVidia). Ironically, ATI now belongs to AMD.
 
My brand loyalty lasts only as long as the brand offers top performance at a competetive price, or there are interoperability factors (for example, all my IDE drives have been Western Digital, but my SCSI drives have been from Seagate, Fujitsu, and Quantum).

In my view, your best bet is to shop for performance-per-dollar, rather than on the basis of corporate identity.

[MxxPwr]

::snip:: ...This isn't sports:  brand loyalty basically means loyalty to a corporation and its management (oh wait, I guess it is just like pro sports). I used Diamond graphics boards for a long time, and then 3dfx, 3DLabs, and Matrox. The ATI board I had was awful. But Diamond started turning out crap products and then disappeared (merged with S3, switched to consumer electronics under the SonicBlue brand, and eventually went bankrupt), while Matrox dropped out of the consumer board market (no DX9 boards), and so I took a chance on an ATI 9800 Pro, and was more than happy. So that's where I am now. As long as ATI offers a high-performance product at a good price, I probably won't change (and I have non-performance issues with nVidia). Ironically, ATI now belongs to AMD... ::snip::

And to take the pro sports analogy further, graphics boards have always reminded me a little of Indy Car racing. Everybody's trying to make that next tech leap, but leap the wrong way, and your race team is crippled for the next tech cycle. With graphic board manufacturers, leap the wrong way, and you take a hit in market share (or die completely).

That's what happened with ATI and Nvidia. ATI made a kick-ass board. Nvidia made two cards work together. SLI (Nvidia dual card) caught on like wild fire with the rise in sales and market share to prove it (heck, why not, selling two cards per unit has to increase sales, right?). ATI eventually came in with Crossfire, but the damage was done. So, still you have ATI with the best single board, but Nvidia with the best dual boards.

But honestly, who would've thought the next 'innovation' was blending two cards together? Funny thing the tech market.

Anyway, I really don't stand anywhere when it comes to ATI or Nvidia, it depends on what someone's after. Just posting a random thought I guess.

[SpaceDoll]

Hey Dr. Beast   
The leap from piece of shit to mediocre is huge, and a little shocking!!

When I do get around to building that box, I'd like to play Oblivion on the not lowest settings, any suggestions?

[songsmith]

My head hurts! 

I am looking at HP and Velocity. The Velocity machine is $1200 more. What I don't know is if it's worth it. My husband wants to make sure we are Vista ready when the time comes. Here are the proposed specs:

HP Pavilion d4650y customizable Desktop PC
RF170AV#ABA 
- Genuine Windows XP Professional
- Intel(R) Core(TM) 2 Duo processor E6600 (2.4GHz)
- 1GB DDR2-533MHz dual channel SDRAM (2x512)
- 500GB RAID 0 (2 x 250GB SATA HDDs) - performance
- LightScribe 16X DVD+/-R/RW SuperMulti drive
- 16x max. DVD-ROM
- Sonic DigitalMedia Deluxe-Burn/Copy, Label CD/DVDs
- 15-in-1 memory card reader, 3 USB, 1394, audio
- Logitech X-230 2.1 Speakers
- 802.11 b/g Wireless LAN PCI Card
- No TV Tuner w/remote control
- Up to 512MB ATI RADEON X1600 XT with HyperMemory
- Sound Blaster Audigy 4, 24-bit ADVANCED HD Audio
- HP Wireless Keyboard, Wireless Optical Mouse
- Microsoft(R) Office Small Business Edition
- HP Home & Home Office Store in-box envelope
   $2,037.99  $2,037.99 

And the Velocity Micro

Power Supply 550 Watt Antec® TRUE POWER 2.0 Quiet Power Supply with 120mm Smart Fan (SLI Certified by NVIDIA)
Power Cable Standard Power Cable
Case Lights None
Motherboard Asus® P5N32-SLI SE Deluxe - NVIDIA® nForce™ 4 SLI MCP, PCI Express Motherboard with DDR2
Processor Intel® Core™ 2 Duo processor E6600, dual 2.4GHz cores
CPU Cooling Arctic Cooling® Freezer 7 Heatsink, Ultra Quiet Fan, Copper Heat Pipes, plus Arctic Silver™ 5 Thermal Compound
DDR2 Memory 2048MB Corsair™ DDR2 PC5300 DDR667 (2x1024)
PCX Video 512MB ATI® Radeon™ X1950 XTX*, 2 x DVI out, 1 x S-Video out
Video Cooling VideoCool™ Positive Pressure Airflow System - Speed adjustable, with light
Video Tuning Moderate 3D Video Performance Tuning & Optimization (Requires VideoCool™ system)
Physics Processor None
Monitor 19" Viewsonic® LCD Display (VA902b), 1280 x 1024 resolution, 8ms Response Time - Black
Audio Creative Labs SoundBlaster® Audigy™ 4, high performance 7.1 channel sound
Speakers Creative Labs SBS380 2.1 Channel Stereo Speaker System with Compact Subwoofer - Black
Hard Drive 1 150GB Western Digital Raptor 10,000rpm SATA/150, 16MB Cache, NCQ (Incredible Performance!)
Hard Drive 2 250GB Western Digital WD2500JD 7200rpm SATA/150, 8MB Cache
Optical Drive 1 16x Lite On® DVD+/-RW/CD-RW Dual Layer, Black Bezel
Optical Drive 2 16x DVD/48x CD-RW Lite On® Combo Drive, Black Bezel
Floppy Drive & Media
Reader
8-in-1 Floppy Drive & Media Reader Combo, Black Bezel
Network Adapter Integrated 10/100/1000MBps Gigabit Ethernet Network Adapter
Network Adapter 2 or WiFi
Adapter
None
WiFi Router None
Modem None
FireWire 2 Integrated IEEE 1394 FireWire Ports, 1 front & 1 rear
USB 2.0 Ports 6 USB 2.0 Ports, 2 front & 4 rear
Operating System Genuine Microsoft® Windows® XP Professional w/Service Pack 2 on original CD, Installed & Performance Tuned
Productivity Software Genuine Microsoft® Office 2003 Small Business - Word, Excel, Outlook, PowerPoint, Publisher
Benchmark Software NEW - FutureMark® 3DMark06® Velocity Micro Basic Edition - gaming performance benchmark software
Security Software None
Recovery Disk Custom DVD Restore Disk, returns your system hard drive to the original factory installation

Is the Velocity really worth that much more? I'm confused. We tend to buy computers every 5 or 6 years, so I like to look to the future and hope that a machine will last longer without much upgrading needed.

The Velocity has the option of a 2-150GB Western Digital RAID 0 drive, but I didn't want to spend that much. I like the idea of the faster drive and added the least expensive second hard drive for storage. We already have a 150 Gig external drive at home.

And thanks for the help you've already given me!

[ZiggyDoodle]

Hegelian, I owe you a bottle of fine vintage wine.

The new power supply (from PC Power & Cooling), the new ATI Radeon X850XT card, and the additional card fan Dell mandates are all installed and running beautifully.

Crisp, clean, and fast.  No more jerky movements or lapses.  What a delight!

Most interesting of all, my Dell 8400 DVD drive (I have two) constantly made roaring sounds when the system was booted up and during game play.  This system is now quiet as a mouse and I have to attribute that to the new PSU.

Your wise counsel is most appreciated.

[DrBeast]

Hey Dr. Beast  
The leap from piece of shit to mediocre is huge, and a little shocking!!

When I do get around to building that box, I'd like to play Oblivion on the not lowest settings, any suggestions?

I configured a 'puter for a friend of mine a couple of months ago. Since then, a) AMD switched from Socket 939 to socket AM2, and b) Intel released its killer Core 2 Duo series. His rig plays Oblivion just fine (FYI Athlon X2 3800+ S939, 2 GB RAM, nVidia 7600GT, SLi-capable m/b) at 1280x1024 with all settings maxed out, but starts chugging when switching to 1600x1200. This may be lovely and all, but the upgradeability went down the drain because of a), and he would have bought the same rig for substantially less money because of b). I feel this is a transitional period still, so since you won't be getting a new machine anytime soon, hold on to that question until that time comes.

[SpaceDoll]

Thanks for the opinion, and I will definately wait and ask again; I was just curious.  So many people at other gaming forums bitch and moan about performance issues with Oblivion, I thought perhaps it required a huge supercomputer to even startup! 

I like the look of Intel dual core, but as for SLI capable video cards, capable is okay, but I do NOT want to buy two!!  I know it's all hot and everything, but the thought of my video card(s) costing more than the whole rest of the rig makes me shudder and sweat.  Of course, there will be a lot of new stuff out there when I get the cash, but I like to dream; you should see my wishlists at NewEgg!!

[ZiggyDoodle]

Songsmith, from what I've read on the 'Net, you'll need at least 2 GB RAM for Vista.

You might want to vist Microsoft's Vista site and read what they have to say.  Ignore the "minimum" requirements unless you want doggy performance.  Tantamount to running TS2 with the Maxis stated minimum requirements.

Also, you might want to hold off on Vista until the second SP has been distributed.  The MS track record isn't all that great.

[KatEnigma]

Songsmith, from what I've read on the 'Net, you'll need at least 2 GB RAM for Vista.

You might want to vist Microsoft's Vista site and read what they have to say.  Ignore the "minimum" requirements unless you want doggy performance.  Tantamount to running TS2 with the Maxis stated minimum requirements.

Also, you might want to hold off on Vista until the second SP has been distributed.  The MS track record isn't all that great.

Personally, if I knew I'd be in the market for a computer soon, I'd buy right now before Vista, for sure.  I will switch to Vista when I have to, and not one second before. I shudder to think of all the things the new DRM is going to break, let alone the extra hard drive space it eats up, and the RAM for the desktop.  I like my computer to work, thanks anyway, not just look pretty.  Okay, maybe it will have a few less of the same old MS holes, but it will only have 3 zillion new ones that haven't been patched yet.

Maybe in 3 or 4 years, when I need a new laptop and have no choice. Definitely not voluntarily. Not unless something went miraculously right with MS for a change.

[MxxPwr]

Personally, if I knew I'd be in the market for a computer soon, I'd buy right now before Vista, for sure.  I will switch to Vista when I have to, and not one second before. I shudder to think of all the things the new DRM is going to break, let alone the extra hard drive space it eats up, and the RAM for the desktop.  I like my computer to work, thanks anyway, not just look pretty.  Okay, maybe it will have a few less of the same old MS holes, but it will only have 3 zillion new ones that haven't been patched yet.

Maybe in 3 or 4 years, when I need a new laptop and have no choice. Definitely not voluntarily. Not unless something went miraculously right with MS for a change.

Don't forget about DirectX 10 

I can't imagine what they'll screw up with that.

[songsmith]

Oops, I thought I had 2 Gig on that HP. I know that's what's needed. I wanted the new computer to be Vista ready when and if the time comes to switch.

The point is moot, however. It looks like our video card fried on this thing but can be fixed, so we will hold off  on purchasing a new PC a bit. I'd like to have a new PC (who wouldn't?) but, like you, I'd rather wait for the bugs to be worked out of the tech that's right around the corner rather than paying for the privilege of being a beta tester, which seems what software companies expect people to do anymore. 

[brat]

Sorry to keep doing this, but I do not know anything about computers except how to play the sims2! What about this pc?

Components
PROCESSOR Intel® Core™2 Extreme processor x6800 (2.93GHz) edit
OPERATING SYSTEM Genuine Windows® XP Professional with re-installation CD edit
MEMORY 2GB Dual Channel DDR2 SDRAM at 667MHz - 2 DIMMs edit
HARD DRIVE 500GB Serial ATA 3Gb/s Hard Drive (7200RPM) w/DataBurst Cache™ edit
ADDITIONAL HARD DRIVE 500GB Serial ATA 3Gb/s Hard Drive (7200RPM) w/DataBurst Cache™ edit
OPTICAL DRIVE Dual Drives: 16x DVD-ROM Drive + 16x DVD+/-RW w/ dbl layer write capable edit
MONITOR No Monitor edit
VIDEO CARD 512MB nVidia GeForce 7900 GTX edit
SOUND CARD Sound Blaster® X-Fi™ XtremeMusic (D) Sound Card
 

XPS Specialized Support XPS, Specialized Support 
Future Operating Systems Windows Vista™ Capable 
SYSTEM DETAILS 2.5MM aluminum thickness Chassis with front & back customizable LEDs 
SYSTEM DETAILS 7-slot, BTX design motherboard 
SYSTEM DETAILS 750-watt Power Supply 
SYSTEM DETAILS Tower Six-heat pipe, Copper base Heat Sink with aluminum fans 
SYSTEM DETAILS Two 120mm x 38mm front fans

[KatEnigma]

It would run TS2 great, assuming Nvidia made a driver that's compatible.  I haven't been keeping up, what are the status of their latest drivers and the game?  Good going on adding the XP installation disk. So many people don't and then are lost when they have to reinstall.

[DrBeast]

That system is a killer brat! The only thing you could improve is switching to 800MHz DDR2 sticks instead of 667MHz. Other than that, let me grab my heart pills before you tell me how much that beast will cost!

[brat]

Well, I admit it is a little on the expensive side, but it seems like I'm getting a new computer every year or so. Plus I would like to have one that can handle all my downloads and not take an hour for my game to load!