More Awesome Than You!

Someone asked on VS for TwoJeffs buyable career rewards mod, and instead of just telling them where they can get it, VampCat says:


http://www.variousimmers.net/vsimforum/showthread.php?threadid=2922

It makes about as much sense as anything does over there anymore.

Well, I guess they are not about to advertise a site More Awesome Than Them.  :D

That's what I was thinking.  Besides, he couldn't very well post the URL, could he?  Since Rentech has it blocked. :P

I have used the ultimate in coding technology to post the url to this site - SPACES!

Here is a copy of my post in case of deletion:

Re: Buyable Rewards

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Wouldn't it be nice to direct the OP to where the original hacks are?

www . moreawesomethanyou . com / for the originals by twojeffs so you can worship them in all their awesome goodness.

(now for a Captain Obvious moment: delete the spaces in the site address as for some reason that address won't link properly from here. Then add / s m f as that won't come up right in my post either - again removing the spaces)
__________________
vecki... lost and confused since 1978...

Oh dear, watch out for the PMs on here.   I was really glad I had a 10 PM limit on here over the past few days.

OMG...I can smell the fear from VS from here!! How arrogant of Vampcat to imply 'Hey, I can spit 'em out for you, no prob, you don't need TJ'  ...pftttt!!

VC can spit out rewards? That would be a neat trick.

Rentech's starting to get rather amusing now.


http://www.variousimmers.net/vsimforum/showthread.php?t=2661

Am I hallucinating, or is that completely wrong?

Look what they did to Gali trying to help out:



I also like how Rentech said that twojeffs has moved to another site More Awesome Than You...
right before making that retarded statement seventhson quoted. Is it just me, or Is Rentechd trying to give the impression that TJ left because he thinks he's too good for VS? Well, she's right. He is too good for VS. I'm so glad you came here, TJ!

Okay, so what if the site owner point blank spells out that the correct link is http://www.moreawesomethanyou.com and he would like people to be directed to that link? I thought he already did this but maybe Pescado should make some statement that spells this out and denies he requested any links blocked to put an end to her bullshit double talk.

Tee hee-did you see the post by Peaches_Cream? She said she's love to join this site, but can't afford the subscription  ;D
Sorry to jump in, but that made me giggle!

Not only does it not make sense, I think that is VERY innappropriate modding etiquette. Is Vamp Cat prepared to duplicate all of Jeff's mods? How very rude.

I think some people might be looking for the buyable career reward objects for a lot that was very recently uploaded at MTS2. It's an awesome replication of the 4077th MASH unit and the thread directs people to VariousSimmers to get TJ's mod. I posted a reply indicating that TJ could be found here so hopefully people looking for his stuff because of that lot will be able to skip the VS nonsense.

That's what I thought, Reg.  While making career rewards available might be relatively simple, what about when they start requesting his other mods?  Is he going to "spit them out pretty quickly" also???

People can't dictate where others link.  (It SO cracked me up that the official Olympics site forbade you linking to it unless you had their written permission.)  The ONLY reason they should honor such a request, if it ever existed, would be out of respect, and they CLEARLY don't respect him.

Any site owner can EASILY redirect outside links to a different page, whichever one they want, if that was ever his goal.  He wouldn't need anyone on VS to modify their linking behavior.

I'd like to see him try the casual romance mod!
No I wouldn't...

Was it or wasn't it a request of El Presidente that they don't link to this site?

I'm confused on this point.   :-\

I do hope places a warning on his though  that reads caution: I am not the original modder of this so therefore it may cause unknown oddities in your game

I would like to know this too and exactly what, if anything, he requested, what he didn't, whether or not he wants them to link here and if so if he cares which page (ie the front or the specific page in question) they use.

Seems like Rennie is using Pescado's usual obtuseness to fuel her petty vendetta.

This is all just so sad. And that's all I've got to say 'bout that...for the moment.

This is so pathetic and ridiculous. Have they no shame? :-\

Exactly, very well stated.  I think that the keys words here are inappropriate etiquette with more than just modding.  Plain and simple.  The lack of etiquette and severe lack of ethics is incredibly prolific with some of the modders on VS.  But none of this surprises me when it comes to VS.  I have come to accept the immature, condescending, bratty, vindictive, gonna stomp my feet and pout attitude from Rentwit and the consistent juvenile behavior from some of the others.  They just cannot seem to help themselves.  It's all done with malice and forethought and I find it all to be quite disgusting. 

No shame, no morals, no decency  :(

That is p-a-t-h-e-t-i-c.

I'm glad Twojeffs is here now instead of at that p-a-t-h-e-t-i-c other site.

Isn't Rentech supposed to be a smart adult? She's acting more like a spoilt child.

I remember that JMP definitely started out saying that he wanted everyone to come through the front page, and that we should give links to the forum only to answer specific questions. But finding specific forum posts in Search has always been a nightmare. Here are a few posts from him that I could find that clarify things:

Hey, JMP, I'm currently working on a Newbie's guide to TS2 for Worldsims.  Can I include a link to this thread in it? (http://www.moreawesomethanyou.com/smf/index.php?topic=3.msg2041#msg2041)

& another:
Can I link this thread to Worldsims? (http://www.moreawesomethanyou.com/smf/index.php?topic=151.msg13011#msg13011)

Bleh.

Thanks for finding this.  I remembered that but like you said it's hard to find stuff on here.  I too remember him saying to only link to the front page unless it was a question about a specific hack, but I can't find this now.

Well these are questions about a specific hack. And she's not letting people link to the font page either.

I'd love to know who these supposed people are that wrote her. Did anyone hear write her? Seriously, if you did just say so, no one will care. Hell, I'll congratulate anyone who sent her a nasty PM. As much as I'd love to take credit for leaving her a bag of flaming dog poo, it wasn't me. So if it wasn't anyone from Pescado's site complaining about how she is not linking to the right address, then who was it? None of her camp care.

May I just say, this is bullshit!  Meanwhile they're whining about CEP and credit apparently in Conspiracy Land going to the creators of the CEP instead of themselves, but VampCat is quite content to 'spit out' new versions of twojeffs' hacks and therefore gain extra credit.  No one said Vamp Cat wasn't allowed to make the hack, but credit where credit is due.

EDIT: But wait, I even got a PM from RentechD:


What was I told?  And when?  Has Rentwit gotten me confused with somebody else?

I just think Rentwit stays in a confused state period.  She is shall we say, full of poops la roo.  :D 

Jesus!!

 Vampcat has sure got his knickers in a twist!! When reading his whiny reply I could almost see the smoke coming out of his ears and his face contorting with rage and idignation. Also the classic line "Moding is not about worship, it is about giving the public a choice" *Ahem* I'm sure he believes his own bs...not!!   Produced a 'giggly' moment for me, that's for sure.  ;D

...You would think Boris would be busier with other things than checking to make sure absolutely no links to this site are posted at VS, much less taking the time to send ~7~ "cussing PM's".

And of course the thread was locked to prevent ... oh you know.... healthy debate on the topic.

I was tempted to pm him and rentechd (who knows, maybe I could get myself a ban?  I was thinking of deleting my account if I could figure out how to do it anyway) but I don't think I could match that face twisting, vein popping, screeching tone.

Oh for god's sake! Does she really expect us to believe that Boris made 7 cussing pms to her in that short of a timespan? Exaggerate much?  ::)

Looks like Vamp Cat is in dire need of some woohoo to me. hmmm..... the modding comment is the easy way out of  the corner he stuck himself in.if his modding abilities were  even close to what Two Jeffs or Pescado's are he wouldnt be such a crybaby. it produced a shake my head in di :-\sbelief moment for me

LOL...I forgot to visualise the 'screeching tone'. Now my 'giggly' moment has blown out to a full LMAO  :D

My that thread has been heavily... modified... it reads totally differently now than when I read it yesterday.

Wow what a suprise!  ::)  ::)  ::)

I really think Rennie and her bunch are the most pathetic people in the Sims community. Worse than Delphy and his groupies at MTS2, worse than Steve and the money whores at TSR, worse than any idiotic 10 year on the BBS who uploads other people's stuff and takes credit for it.

She's a petty, paranoid scumbag tyrant and just all around pathetic and Vampcat is some kid hanger on who she found and is now clinging to as her claim to fame since she pissed off every modder who was worth a damn in the Sims community.

Wow, Motoki.  Don't hold back, tell us how you really feel.  :D

censorship is the name of the game over at VS.I wonder how many new members would sign up for VS if this statement was inserted " we reserve the right to censor any and all posts on this forum" we further reserve the right make you a read only member and effectively ban you while declaring to the world that you are not banned"  we also reserve  and will exercise the right to turn out cheap imitations of mods that other creators made and took with them when they left :-X

CRAP! CRAP! CRAP! I didn't realize the damn thread was closed and hit the freaking THANKS button instead of the quote button.  Son of a b!tch. Please disregard that horrifying nonsense I managed to get myself into.  I certainly don't condone what he is doing.

Edit: I just posted a request for deletion of my account.  Wonder if my post will stay? http://www.variousimmers.net/vsimforum/showthread.php?p=26865#post26865 (http://www.variousimmers.net/vsimforum/showthread.php?p=26865#post26865)

If not it read:

That's true, I did say that. AND I SAID IT AS PART OF THE ADMIN FORUM!

Rentech was extremely pissed and spitting fire as VS that someone starting posting here about things that were said in that private forum on VS. And now she starts spewing the shit out in PM's to users.  >:(

Twojeffs is now officially pissed.

I stand by what I said at the time, and I was there when 'The Site' agreed to not link here, but I never saw anything other than Rentech's word (which I took at the time) that JM had requested she do it.

Neither have I. I would love to know once and for all if he ever point blank told her not to link to his page.

I also hate how the replaced text says 'link block by linked site' um, no it isn't. I could maybe see it saying 'link blocked by request of site owner' assuming it actually was requested, but this actual site ain't blocking shit. She's doing it and has admitted as such, so why she continues to use that very misleading text is anyone's guess.

Well I guess the original poster would.

I suppose I sound paranoid if I mention that ms "oh I can't find any sims2 downloads like there were for sims1, but here on this obscure small site I find someone who's just going to give me everything I need" sounds rather set-up-ishy. No offense to any of these sites, but nowadays there's tons of stuff for sims2 - just not anything that takes new animations <still waiting - it'll be here eventually> Not that I personally have any kick in this game to be paranoid over, but I'm right skeptical about net posters.

Wonder if someone over at MTS2 would change the links on the career rewards thread to redirect here rather than VS? (Really no offense, but I can see that it must be kinda a pain trying to follow the modders around and provide the proper links.) Anyways, I'd think they'd change it if requested to do so? Seems to me tons of people ending up there looking for twojeffs is rather silly.

Given my post count - hello I have 3 remaining posts on that board (most were previously in Pescado's forum and a few in twojeffs), did it not occurr to Rentwit that I may not have seen any request - even if it HAD been publicised?

EDIT: Calling Pescado: did you ask RentechD and the rest of the VS team to block links to MATY?  If so, then I've committed a blunder and am fully deserving of lips being ripped.  If not, we have more evidence that RentechD and co are a sack of lying, scheming, overdressed retards.

What the heck does that mean?  TwoJeffs objects are hacks, but VampCat's aren't?  What a load of BS.  What bothers me the most is that people who are not involved in this mess come asking for help and get this runaround.  Rentech and Co. aren't concerned about helping people, they are concerned with sticking it to JM and screw the people who happen to come to her site looking for certain files.

I see links to here all the time on Mod the sims2 especially in the help section

This is lie. Boris does not know even who this "Rentech" is and has never been to this Rentech's site. Boris barely even has time to go to this site, and even this is not Boris's site and Boris does not decide policy. Boris is too busy preparing to leave country to worry about silly politics of sites that do not belong to Boris.

Gee, I wonder why JM doesn't mind MTS2 linking here, but he doesn't want VS linking here??  And why would Dr. Boris send 7 cussing PMs?  Wouldn't one be enough?  Oh yes, her story wouldn't have the same impact then...

Oh yeah, and JMPescado's own SimPage - ON THE OFFICIAL WEBSITE WHERE MOST OF THE SHEEP RESIDE - actually links to the front page.  Gee, way to prevent the idiots from coming here!

<nod> They don't seem to have a problem with it at all. I got here from MTS2 myself (complete with an announcement to ignore the front page :)) I meant the ones specifically on the locked thread announcement at the top, and the one by daysies at the end on this thread:

http://www.modthesims2.com/showthread.php?t=48720

and maybe any others by twojeffs. As it's locked, it needs a mod to do it and I don't suppose anyone has told them specifically that twojeffs moved. MTS2 doesn't take things down very often, so all the stuff that was there is still (at least in spirit) on there. At the moment, doing a search for twojeffs is going to get people redirected incorrectly.

Exactly. She also still wants to stick it to Delphy, hates RGiles, is trying to squelch and silence Inge, has an agenda against Numenor and Quaxi, kicked out Wintermute, did something to piss off Eric and Kathy because they hate her guts, repeating things TwoJeffs said in private to others, is spreading lies about Boris whom she has not even ever met, and in case ya' didn't notice, I ain't too fond of the bitch either.

Her list of people to get even with and try and stick it too seems to get longer every day. She's even pissing off relatively drama-free and mellow types. I've never even seen TwoJeffs annoyed before.  :o

Say it aint so..............

It's gone.  Why am I not surprised?

Neither have I.  I'm frightened.   :o

JM just confirmed in chat that he never told Rentech to block links to his site.  So there. :P

I've already requested that the links in my threads @ MTS2 be updated and have been told that it would be taken care of as soon as possible. Personally I could give a rip if Rentech allows links here or not, that's her own problem, if people want to find my stuff, they'll find me. What pisses me off is her talking out of both sides of her mouth at the same time. I was really trying to be civil about this whole thing, but I've had it with this bullshit.

For the record, I did recently ask Pescado if he's ever said anything about linking to MATY. He said he has told people who asked (and I don't know if Rentech ever did) that he preferred that links went to the front page, but never demanded anything.


Twojeffs is way beyond annoyed at this point.

You probably hit "delete" by mistake and deleted your own post.  Rentech wouldn't do that.  Just like Inge typed "buttocks" instead of "server".

<end sarcasm>

[/quote]

Twojeffs is way beyond annoyed at this point.
[/quote]

Hands TJ a drink...."I think you might need this buddy"  :)

<pokes MTS2 for being slow then>

Admittedly, while career rewards might be available elsewhere, those of us who think quad hacks and the like are cotton candy by any other name will probably be able to figure it out somehow, and I guess google as nerd/newbie filter is a rather interesting concept. wonder if they ever considered being used that way ;)

Also quite unlikely to care what was said on an admin board as long as we get our fix - if that helps any, but it probably doesn't. (not that it excuses it... she can contradict herself in the same post, sometimes in the same sentence, when she's on a rant, imnsho. tho I do quite like the baby mobile, and the pirate ship 'cept it's too attractive... obviously I'm into littler sims)

<shushes now>

Why am  I not surprised that JM never said such a thing.Rentech is trying to justify her childish behavior and when a child thinks the truth wont help  what's the first thing a child does? they lie.

Heh. Can't poke MTS2 yet. I just went there to check, and realized that I never sent my reply to CynicalChick. Must've hit a link on a different page and lost it before I sent it. Oh well, it's sent now, so I'm sure they update the threads soon.

And it doesn't specifically piss me off that she repeated something I'd said in private, because I really don't care about that and have already said I stand by the quote she used and that it is an accurate representation of what I said.

What pisses me off is the hypocrisy of her posting very recently a very long nasty notice to all of the creators at VS (including me at the time) that in a nutshell said, whatever is said on these (admin) forums must stay on these forums. That notice came about because rentech was upset that Witch posted here about the stupid survey and the PS2 demo CDs she had gotten from Maxis.

But I forgot, the rules don't apply to her, and it ok if she does it.  ::)

uh oh, once the poking tool is armed and ready, it's, like, locked on load and must be used before returning to the normal at ease state. (yes, I like commas... and alliteration ...onomatopoeia too, 'cept in foreign tongues.)

so, who needs a good poke?




(Not Rentech, I mean. I despise hypocrisy and that totally wouldn't provide the proper degree of disdain.)

Talk about shooting herself in the foot. No matter what spin she attempts to put on her behavior to make it sound reasonable it's going to circle back around to bite her in the end. Gotta love that karma. I wouldn't be surprised if VS ends up being the FBVFS. Good thing TwoJeffs and Witch headed for the life rafts while there was still time.

Now we just need to get dizzy out before he drowns too.

In other news... I'm addicted to this thread.  :D

I just keep hitting refresh to see how else we can insult Rentwit and Co.  Maybe I actually need a ban from here??

(No!  I didn't mean it!  Don't do it!!!)

I did it. Just sent this to Rentech via PM:

Due to recent circumstances, most noteworthy the CEP thread and VampCat's cavalier attitude about duplicating another modder's work, I request that you delete my membership to this site as I cannot see an obvious way to do it myself. Variousimmers used to be great, but (and this has nothing to do with Pescado or his leaving) I recently have been very disappointed by the politics and bullshit. Deleting threads, editing posts, the whole linking nonsense, the name-calling and utter draconian censorship (unless it's one of the forum owners doing the name-calling, etc), effectively banning people while not 'technically' banning them, in other words, THE GAMES you people seem intent on playing are not my cup of tea and I'd prefer not to have my name listed as a site member here. I know you will blame Pescado or Inge or whatever other scapegoat you find handy for the sorry state of affairs this site is in, but you have no one to blame but yourself and some of your other forum owners, VampCat in particular. No need to respond/defend/whatever. Just remove my membership please.

Good on ya Reg  :)

Maybe if enough people do this and send their letters expressing whatever feelings they have about VS then perhaps Ren will go into total meltdown and VS will indeed explode into a BFBVFOS.

Uh, correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't that survey on a public board? I mean, it was just out in the open where anyone could read it, not in a private board for mods only right?

Reg: She won't remove your membership, she'll just remove your posting privileges.  ::)

Wow.  I like.  Can I copy and paste that into a pm to Rentwit for myself?

Me too, in fact eff it, I'm going to do that right now. :P

*edit: PM Sent

Subject: I want out

Yes this is copy and pasted from Reggikko, but it also fits my sentiments exactly. I want to be removed completely from your member list, none of that removing posting privileges bullshit. Oh and don't bother replying, because I ain't coming back unless I notice you didn't remove my name from your memberlist, in which case I WILL come back and hound your sorry ass until you do!

*rubs hands together and smiles*.....and the ball starts rolling  :)

Yes it was, it was on the front page when I went over there.  I usually don't even see the front page since I usually go there from links in my email when there were updates in TwoJeffs' forums.

Wow, Motoki, you're going to have to stop bottling up your emotions like that.  It ain't healthy.

So then why the hell was she mad at Witch for posting about it somewhere else? It's not as if it were some big secret.  ::)

Oh wait, I almost forgot, everything is Witch's fault. :P

Anyone who would like to copy/amend/use/fold/spindle/mutilate my PM may do just that so long as it is sent via PM to Rentech or any other VS admin. I only ask that it not be posted on any of the forums on VS.

LOL as if we could! If we tried, I give it 5 minutes tops before it gets deleted.

hee hee.  Well me leaving there is no great loss to them as I was never a huge participant in any forums other than Pescado's and twojeffs, and I'm sure she'll take it as me being sour about being told off both on the thread and via pm, but I was actually considering it for quite some time due to them leaving and the recent name calling in the CEP thread, and I don't even want to have a membership at a place with such nasty staff.

EDIT: added my two cents to the copy-n-paste job.

I'm half-way tempted now to go over there and create an account just so I can PM Rennie and ask her to delete it.   ;D

I thought it was Inge's fault. Or Delphy's. Or Quaxi's. Or RGiles. Or Numenor. Or Pescado's. Or TwoJeffs'. Or.....

You know, one would think that if you have a problem with so many people, maybe it's not them? Just a thought.

I can imagine the old line of "it's not you, it's me" doing a switcheroo when it comes to people with that type of attitude....  ;)

Oh ho!

I have been banned.  The account has not been deleted.  But banned.

Decided to test it out by trying to reply to an open topic in Carrigon's forum



Same deal when I tried to start a new topic in her 'Support Forum' - as a test, I didn't actually want to post anything.

One strike and you're out on VS, kiddies.

EDIT: ah, yes, the small print:

I know, me too.  :D

The survey itself was, I was referring the discussions about it beforehand when Rentech found out from Maxis that the site was being given the demo disks. She wanted to keep the 'prize' a secret.

Ah well Vecsta, it was bound to happen.

I'll bet ol' Ren has some sort of bot over there that just bans every person who posts anything with the words -  CEP, bullshit, banning, deleting, Pescado, Twojeffs, Inge and Witch in it...whether collectively or separately   ;D

I didn't think to check before...  It's quite possible I was banned the moment 'they' saw my post in the thread.

I don't think she's read my PM yet.

(I do like the fact that the post that got me banned was also the only post where someone 'added to my reputation', saying "Nice to know someone actually provided the information they were asking for!!!"

Was that someone from here!? :D

Me three

How could you tell which post someone added reputation for?  I could never tell which one, only that someone had done it.  I clicked add and remove for several posters, but I keep getting that message about having to spread it around before giving to this person again, even when I'm not giving rep.

It was either in my profile or account info - I think where my subscribed threads were.

I do have to wonder what sort of ban Vecsta received. Was it the official ban? Or was it the you're-not-really-banned-but-sort-of-are-ban? :P

I would like to know that too, after all, if even Pescado isn't banned officially (but what the hell is the difference between read-only and guest, is what I'd like to know)  ::)

I just got a PM. Apparently she will not delete my account because that will simply give "me and my friends" the avenue to create new accounts and continue to cause trouble on her site. Excuse me? I have never caused trouble on her site, first of all. I've always been polite, etc. Secondly, as if I couldn't create a bogus account anyway. Thirdly, I haven't even posted there since July. Also, she doesn't want me "twisting the truth" and saying she banned me. Uh-huh. She is willing, however, to let me see what "read-only" status is like.

She can blow it out her server if she thinks I'll ever go there again. Read-only! Hah.

seems like the same thingg to me

can somebody try to send me a pm on VS?  My sent items have disappeared (no I did not delete them) and I'm curious to see if I can still read them (I remember Inge having trouble viewing PMs after being 'accidentally' banned - sorry, put on read-only - sorry, disabled).

That is such complete and utter shite!  rentech needs to get out and get a real god-damned life.

The following users were not found:
vecsta
 I tried and  the above was  the very quick terse response

Do you hear that? It's the crumbling of Rentechd's reality all around her. The members of the community who believe a thing she says will get increasingly smaller with each outlandish remark she makes. That PM she sent you was laughable and proves how deep her delusions really are. Puhleeze, she acts more irrational all the time, her biggest enemy is herself. I say we all send pictures of our bare servers and tell her to enjoy the ghost town formerly known as her site. She's the instrument of her own destruction.

If you are Vecsta on that site, you don't appear in the member list.

ROFLMAO!  ;D

Exuse me, but deleting accounts at VS is a hasty decision.

First, you lose the access to Carrigon, Merola and Dizzy2 sections, without being able to download from there.

Second, If Rentech is acting in a childish way (that's my impression), it doen't mean that we, the players, have to follow her attitude - on the contrary, we have to demand our rights, to being helped by the Administrators.

Better, if somebody opens there a thread, something like petition, and demand the right to be helped on the spot. I would sign gladly on that petition.

I don't care if VampCat, or Rentech, or anybody at VS hates x, y, z web-owners! It's not my business at all! I just want to be free to access any site that I have favorite modders there.

Imagine that Carrigon will leave VS and move to a private site (which she already has) only. Now Rentech will block the access to her site too. And so on, and so on, until you won't be able to get any link on the VS.

I think too, that ALL the web-owners have to make a colloquium, and decide the global rools for permitted web-ownership, and one of these rules has to be: FREE and ACCESIBLE LINKS.

The initiative has to come from both: players, and web-owners.

Really, it's playing with "kaka-pipi" (shit and urine, in Hebrew)...:).

apparently the only way to have your account deleted is to be banned  and  that I take issue with .I voluntarily signed up and should be allowed to leave the rank and file at my discretion not the site owner's.I could see  her having an issue with  someone if they were truly a trouble maker but I  have posted exactly 7 times over there and I dont really think wanting to leave  VS is hasty on my part . the only reason I joined in the first PLace was because  Two Jeffs was at  VS and  JMP was there. and my game functions on those mods Just as my sims dont stand at the refrigerator starving anymore bbecause they forgot to buy food thanks to Inge and her alway full mod.

I downloaded hacks from TJ without ever being a member, so you don't need to be a member to download anything, only to post in the forums.

Gali, I understand your point, but I wanted to make a point to Rentech. The mods are still available. They can be downloaded even as a guest. Also, Dizzy posts his mods at MTS2 and Merola has his own site. I didn't come by my decision lightly. This latest issue with VampCat is what did it. I won't download off that site anymore. Period.

come to think of it so did I and JMP used to link his mods at VS on MTS2 so they could be downloaded

Oh, I didn't know that you can have access to the mods, and as BlueSoup says, she is not a member, and downloads from VS.

Nevertheless, I really think there should be some global decision about running a web-site.

I remember, that when I played TS1, some web-site owner, not knowing the etique rules, copied files he liked from all the Sim sites (mainly "7 deadly sims"), and published them on his site. I was quite glad downloading from his site, but 7 deadly sims sued him (I don't know where), and he was forced to close his site.

I asked the owners of 7DS, why they sued him, and they said that he had to accept first their permission, and as he didn't, they had the right to sue him for copywrite creations and publishing them. After that, any object published on the web was scanned  with a microscope if it's breaking the copywrite rule.
 
Lol, I had a friend, web-site owner, who was accused of publishing some bed (i.e. copied the bed, recolored it, and putting it on her site). She was terrified, because this bed was her own creation. She was forced to give the file to the accusers, to be scanned, and after that they admitted that it's her own creation.

May be the link-blockage is too a matter of sue? What the Internet rules say?

the problem with netettiquite is that it only takes one jerk that doesn't follow the equitte for things to break down.

It's hard to make "rules" when you can't make people stick to them. As much as I'd like to see Rentech forced to end her silly little games it's not going to happen.

At the risk of posting what is no doubt an unpopular option, here's something we might try:

Mind our Own Business.


As someone who's been aquainted with both Rentech and Pescado since before the days when #grah was first created on MTS2, before we moved to #eviltone, before the creation of variousimmers - This seems to be the best course of action.  This entire "war" that is being perpetuated in public on both sides by "supporters" of Rentech and Pescado, and no doubt in private by themselves, is simply none of my business.  This thread itself is full of he-said-she-saids - some of which I know to be true, some of which I know to be not true, either because I was *in a chat room where they happened*, or *in a forum where they happened*.  But a great deal more seems to be speculation or based on PMs, and I will *NOT* take sides on this type of thing. 
If you don't like variousimmers any more, simply don't go. You account will be deleted automatically after a period of inactivity.  Messaging Rentech isn't going to accomplish anything in this context.  If things were aimiable around here, she probably would, but with threads like this, how can such a message seem like anything other than a combat move?

If you want to complain about how "immature" variousimmers is - and I'm not denying that it can be the case - you can start by *not talking about it constantly and harrasing its webmistress with PMs*  - but rather taking the high road yourself - just walk away.

I think Melissa would agree, Michael.  ;)

(http://fresh99.com/images/frenchnewsanchor/melissa414.jpg)

Oh. I posted on a thread that was already talking about the survey & the prizes. I merely added the comment that Maxis had had nothing to do with the survey, that it was Rentech's idea solely. I had read that Maxis had been firm that the demo disks were not just to be shared amongst staff, so I said that, yes. Hardly earth shattering stuff, quite commonsensical really. Oh God, I confess, I just wanted to clear Maxis' good name.

I did not however talk about the admin threads where bile spewing was common. I have not and will not report stuff that is personal or private or, quite frankly, revolting.

I have never been involved with a forum before where I did not have the choice to delete my own account. I think this is all quite tragic. In many senses of the word.

Did anyone else notice the pitiful attempt to get posters here pissed off with JM for calling us brainless? Ha! He calls us far worse names on a daily basis.

I'm starting to get irritated with all this BS now.

PS Who the hell's Melissa? Pretty as she is and all.

Heya MTC. This is truly the last thing I will say on this matter. I had no real problem with Rentech or anyone at VS until the ugliness in the CEP thread. None of our business, true, but it was all aired in a public forum rather than privately. Then there was the whole VampCat thing with Jeff's mod. I'm sorry, but I find what he did inexcusable. I've lost respect for several of the key players there, present company excluded, of course, and I simply do not want to remain a member.

I have taken some swipes here I will admit. Most of the he said/she said stuff I find amusing at best, but I would not be on any sort of personal vendetta against anyone over that kind of stuff. To me, this is a matter of integrity and I simply wanted my voice to be heard by Rentech herself. I was wrong to post my PM here. That was a bad judgement call on my part and I apologize for that.

If you say accounts will be deleted if they reamin inactive that is good enough for me. I do trust your word and your integrity. Now, go eat some pie.  ;)

Sorry I forgot to mention that my username there is vecki - never changed it like I did here.

Why don't you just go back to being vecki?

Well if the Flying Fish says so... I must obey or I might get banned here too!! :D ;D

I'm in such illustrious company... we should start our own club, the Banned from VS Club.  Or the Banned from Rentech.com Club

Or does it already exist?  How do I apply to become a member? :D

(actually I've just been too damn lazy)

Onomatopoeia...? Don't tell me that word actually exists in English...?
I'll be damned...just made a check and there it is. You english speaking people must be the greatest language plagiarists on earth!  :P ;D
Man I feel even prouder for being greek!  8)

You already are a member. :P You get to be a member anytime you get banned from rentech.com, alongside myself and Inge. :P

And well you should be, Greece being an absolute oasis for those of us embarking from the ebony shores of word plagerism, an alabaster nay ivory - no, let me be clear, aLily-white goal for the rest of us. Perhaps tho, we can imitate the phoenix and, with the aid of wonderful Greek alchemy rise from the ashes and join the behemoth-like myth that is the Greek cacophony of native noises (dicounting only baboons, of course) as we submit ourselves to the etymological activity.



;)

Well, evidently my post was deleted as soon as I posted it.  This morning, I appear to be "not-banned" though, as I get this when I try to search the members list:

Oh, darn.  :D


I fail to see, however, how sending one simple PM asking for deletion of an account is harassment.  If a simple method for user-deletion was in place, one wouldn't have to request removal at all.  Anyway, I didn't send her a PM. I posted a message, which was promptly deleted and someone took the time to make me "not-banned".

OMG!!! This new furious state Is SO KEWL!!!! I have this simmy called Jeff and he moved out of the house he was sharing and like the simmy who still lived there totally spazzed with him and had like 3 crossed-out lightning bolts and he had like -100/-100 with her (I think she is an unpopularity sim or something) and when he tried to go back to her lot to bitch-slap her he couldn't because she had accidently deleted the portal or something and the evil nanny was cheering him on and throwing bags of poo or putting hate mail in her mail box or something and then this other simmy who still lives at the first lot came over and started shoving everyone!!!!11
My Simmys are just like so cute!!!

_______________________________________________

~ <---- This is willy the wormvirus. Put him in your email to stop the evil internet.
TrOlLzR2KuTe
My favourite Sim Sites: Variousnutters.net, MoreAnnoyedThanYou.com, OhLookIMadeADoor.org

I don't give a hot fuck as I don't use their stuff anyhow. Even so, Merola and Dizzy's stuff is available elsewhere. At this point, I am so sickened by what goes on at that place I want nothing more to do with her site and that includes anyone stupid or stubborn enough to stay there.

I knew she wouldn't delete our accounts either just to be a bitch.  :P

Oh and Michael, don't patronize me, okay? I too have known Pescado and Rentech since before the VS days. I am not a "Pescado supporter" either. I think he's a decent, if somewhat twisted guy and overall I like him but I don't agree with everything he says. Nor did he prompt me to go and ask to have my account removed from her site. It was all the goings on over there that lately that really makes me ill, and that as far as I am concerned everyone who stays there silently supports, that prompted it.

My internet handle is a representation of me and my account also contains information about me. I decided to register there (mostly for Pescado and later TwoJeffs) so I think I should have the right to decide when I want to no longer be registered there. If you say our accounts would be removed for inactivity (and I'm not sure how long that would be since I was inactive for some time until recently) then it really shouldn't make such a big difference for her to delete my account at my request. I have no intention of re-registering there nor to I have any intention to post there anymore and she has my full permission to repost my private message where I specifically asked to have my account deleted if I ever were to claim she banned me.

But she knows all this, and as we've seen, she's got no problems repeating things discussed in private anyhow. She's just doing it to spite us and that's fine. Just shows what sort of person she is and what sort of person those who remain on her site are surrounding themselves with.

Some of  us Just wabt to Cancel our Membership at VS and unlike all other forums we are not allowed to do so.if you are acquainted with Rentech then you might want to let her know that PM's would likely stop if she would allow those of us who want to cancel membership to do so. it seems the only way to leave there is to be the  banned but unbanned  member

Oh, Motoki, don't be mad at Gali.  Did I start this all inadvertently?  Was this all back at the inception of MATY when Rainbow posted the link here, I put up a message here that she had sent some "spawn" this way and we had a little battle both here and at VS.  I apologized, she accepted and all was good again.  Is that was started this whole "Don't link to the site" nonsense?  I hope not.  While I am nowhere near as sweet as Gali, I don't like to be the root of wars either.  Anyway, I like you Motoki but I was just gonna quietly fade away from VS instead of making a GRAND EXIT.  I hope that doesn't put me on your shit list too.

C

Well I was more thinking of people who are actually active there since apparently it's impossible to do anything to remove your membership but quietly fade away anyhow.  ::)

Also, I really don't think private messaging Rennie and asking to have my account removed is all that grand of an exit. It's true, I did post what I said to her here publicly, but I didn't post anything publicly at her place about it and have no intention to.

I didn't mean you were making a GRAND EXIT, I just know you are rather famous for doing so, and since imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, I wanted you to know that I was not going to imitate you, but I still like you.   ;)  Does that make sense?  <affecting whiny voice> Can't we all just get alooooong?

C

LOL Okay and yes I have been known to make grand exits in the past.  ;D

But this time I just want nothing more to do with that place. Even having my name on their member list makes me feel all dirty. :P

I sent you a PM let me know if you got it at VS

Ahh, so like psychodramas in dysfunctional families we're not supposed to make notice of the "elephant standing in the middle of the livingroom." Sorry, I just don't buy it. Even if I'd just been a member of VS I would have been disgusted by that CEP thread childishness and completely perplexed by the link blocking to this site. Seems to me that since Sims1 sites have been allowing links to each other in politeness to the gamer to be able to find what they need. This was even in cases where the site owners didn't exactly like each other very much, but they still behaved like mature adults. Most people are going to be looking at the behavior over at VS and saying, "WTH?" And since we're inquisitive human beings we're bound to talk about things that don't make sense.

I won't bother to PM Rentechd with anything. To me her pattern of behavior makes me feel as though I cannot trust her. I will gladly let my account fade away. But if she's going to get bent that people are speaking negatively about her then she should have chosen her actions more wisely. You reap what you sow. Even though I couldn't ever make an object I know emotional games when I see them and you can bet I'll call attention to them.

I agree. I personally have referred people to numerous sims sites, including those where I have beefs with people who run them like VS. It's no one else's fault if we have issues with certain people or sites and it's not fair to try and keep people from accessing files that will help them in their game for our own selfish personal reasons.

In the case of Vampcat, I think what he's doing is just plain stupid. Why would you want to duplicate work someone else did? As someone who occasionally mucks around with the game files in SimPE I can tell you it's tedious stuff and I sure as hell am not going to bother with going through that if someone else already did!

I agree  SimPE while being a helpful tool  in getting into game file ect...it is tedious work  even just doing simple editing with sims.I use it as tool to create my own recolored objects in my game as well  and even though the object creator works very well it is still time consuming to get the cc package  in to the game where it will stick and look right.so as a  person who is learning the basics of creating  abd finding it to be tedious I personally wouldnt even think of recreating what someone else did its not worth the effort.I think Vampcat in spite of his claims to the contrary wants the acclaim Two Jeffs gets for his work.  :-X

First off, I rarely post anywhere, but I've been a member of all these sites from the start. If I have problems in the game, I quietly search it out and find solutions.

I did post once on VS, a rather profane little ditty, but I was tired of Rentech's attitude, and I was in my cups and pissed. Rentech did not like my post (wry grin).

I've followed all this melodrama with much amusement, the mods of VS holding their breath and stamping their little feet over the CEP...over JM...over anything with which they didn't agree.

Now for my somewhat petty little thought: I filled out that survey on VS, just for the hell of it. I didn't give VS very high ratings in its blatant attempts at "aren't we wonderful and just the best site ever?" questions. In fact, I basically said VS would be the last place I'd turn to for help. (An aside, now that TJ is here, I doubt I'll download from there...Rentech's poly counts on her objects make me fall over laughing).

I got an email from Pam saying I was one of 50 to fill out the survey, send her my address and I'd receive my gift in 5-7 days. I did so (I don't worry about spam in my real mailbox, that's easily handled).

It's been two weeks and nothing. I wonder if it was my crummy rating of VS in the survey? Or that one little post Rentech didn't like? Or laziness?

It isn't that I give a flying rat's ass about a PS2 demo; whether I'd use it as a frisbee for my cats or a coffee cup coaster is irrelevant.

Perhaps Maxis should know they might think twice about hitching their wagon to VS if VS isn't going to follow through.

Oh didn't you know? Polygon counts don't matter at all. At least in the world according to Rentech.  ::)

Back in April or May I went in and polygon counted all my custom meshes (this was before it showed up in SimPE) and I was shocked at some of the huge counts I was seeing for even the smallest and most simple objects. I started talking about it at MTS2 and tried to create awareness of this issue and basically was like downloaders you need to know what you're downloading and creators you guys need to be mindful of these counts, the game isn't Poser and it has a lot more to deal with than just taking a still rendered snapshot. Then someone comes along and informs me that Rennie said that the polygon counts didn't matter at all. I was furious and felt like she basically was undoing all the good I was trying to do. So I went over there and ripped her a new asshole about it. Of course the thread got deleted. Surprise surprise!

If you are going to be an opionated and controversial figure online then you need to be prepared to take heat for it sometimes and be willing to listen to differing opinions and takes and if you can't take disagreement then you need to shut the hell up and not stir things up in the first place. Being a site owner does not give one the right to just delete every damned thing that you don't agree with. Well, at least that's not what a responsible, respectful site owner would do.

Motoki, I followed your poly count arguements as well, and sided with you. Of course the counts matter!

Way back when I was taking classes for 3D Max, one of the first things I was taught was "let the texture carry you". There are so many ways to reduce poly counts that it's ridiculous for anyone to distribute items that are so freaking bloated. Again, it's either incompetency or lack of caring.

(And Motoki, I remember you from the Morrowind days. Yours and Rhedd's stuff were the ones I relied on.)

And again, I agree with you re responsible sit owners. I've hosted a few sites. One can be opinionated and controversial without turning diva and/or dictator.

Are you the Lyric from the Sims site that has the nice makeups and natural blond hair shades?

If so, I love your stuff and gave you a plug in the "Where do you get your custom content?" thread. We should start a mutual admiration society. LOL

No, I believe that's Lyran you're thinking of?

I don't upload my things anymore, I don't want the headaches. However, we can still begin that society, if you want, albeit one-sided! lol

When someone was accused for stealing a mesh none of the people on the forum seemed to understand the phase 'do not redistribute as a part etc' then they complained that there was no mention of it in the readme. It made me laugh.
The only way to scare people into doing low polygon counts is to tell them their game will crash and no one will like them anymore  ;)

VS kind of annoyed me because TJ just seemed to vanish into thin air... no post, no nothing... so the first place i came was here. It seems like they're taking out their frustration on innocent bystanders who are just curious to ask. :-\
Things sure have taken a change over the past year  :D

If you want your accounts closed @ VS, just change your avatar to a butt or something gross lol and get banned.

Don't you mean a "server"? :P Sorry, I couldn't resist. I suspect we'll be beating that old joke to death for some time to come.

Damn! You beat me to it. I was about to post the exact same thing!
And I am very glad I never signed up for membership at VS (I tend to lurk for a long time prior to actual posting).

I believe everybody has a right to their own opinion and is free to believe that opinion forever (even if it's wrong) but I don't believe that people should go around blaming others for their actions. I would have more respect (not much but some) for Rentechd if she came out and said that she intends to force her own reality on her site and here are the rules everyone must follow. Instead, she's just crazy and not helping people who are just looking for help with their game (isn't that what the site should have been about?)

LOL okay. ;) And I know what you mean about uploading stuff. It was so much simpler with Morrowind. There were like 3 sites where you could upload your stuff and most of the drama stayed on the official forum. ;)

Actually, there was a goodbye thread but, yep, you guessed it. It got deleted.  ::)

I know that (and I hope you know that I'm kidding when joking about everything being your fault), and I hope that Rentech does as well. But she took offense that someone 'spilled the beans' about the demo disks and posted the notice to all the forum owners about NOT discussing anything that is talked about in the admin forums. Then she turned around and did the same thing with something I had said. That is what pissed me off. I was just using what you had said to illustrate a point, not to say you did anything wrong. I don't think what you said about the stupid survey amounted to a hill of beans.

Got it, thanks.  I've replied but won't be logging back in there - why bother?

Oh but I can't even change a single thing about my profile on there, not even my password, never mind changing my avatar or sig to something nasty enough for deletion.

ok  just wanted  to know if you got. hmmm I wonder if I  take an in game shot of one of my males naked ie the genital area since my sims are all anatomically correct with out the blur if that would get me deleted if I used it as an avatar

It would probably be deleted even if they weren't anatomically correct. And still had the blur!

Thanks 2Jeffs. I've decided not to go back there at all now, I suspect there is something genuinely wrong with Rentech, as Cabelle says somewhere, there are games being played and not very healthy ones at that. The less attention the behaviour gets the better.

To anyone, not just 2Jeffs:
I first thought there was something odd going on when a poster at VS asked about the identical baby syndrome. Rentech replied with a really weird reply - about parent genetics causing it I think - and that it was part of the game and to be expected. I know Rentech was around when Pescado explained the problem and created the random sim generator, yet when I posted a reply to that effect, (I didn't even mention Pescado) I just suggested the poster go into CAS and create a random number of sims before the baby was born, yet it was as if Rentech had never heard of the concept before, totally ignored my response and carried on talking as if her personal theory on identical babies was fact.

It just seemed totally off-beam to me, like when you talk to someone and become aware that they are discussing something different. The discourse is actually very manic, including the arrogant 'know-all' attitude and the speed at which it appears to be typed - demonstrated by the increasing error rate. (Edit: And the sheer dense impenetrable volume of the text).

This will hopefully be my last post about VS, I just want to state again that I have a concern about the woman's state of mind, I hope for her sake she is not having a meldown this public. I understand the staff at VS just want this to die down and go away but as other posters have mentioned it's damn hard not to notice the elephant in the middle of the room. I'm just relieved that posters on this site are mostly confining themselves to pointing and laughing.

The front page on VS is quite an interesting sight too at the moment. A nice little pat on the back to her 'pet' I must say!  :)

It looks like VS has picked up some new modders as well.  Has anyone heard of SixStringSlim and Kaliburr?  I've never heard of Kaliburr, but I know that SixStringSlim was on Livin' It Up.  Oh and there is someone named SunnySimSim.  It's weird seeing the other mods welcoming the newcomers to the site as though all is well in the world and none of this other stuff just went down, but I guess they are trying to move on.  I just don't think this stuff is going to go away that easily, and as we all know, if you don't take care of the underlying problem, it's just going to keep coming back up.

And that in a nutshell above all else is what has always bothered me about her. And I mean long before even VS was around.

I had always chalked it up to her being a total bitch, but perhaps there's other things going on...

I noticed that tonight. I can't help but worry about these poor guys. Do they know what they're getting into? Noooo because evidence is being stripped away as we speak, I'm sure.

Oddysey, I think it is, does this stuff better, you know the 'double plus ungood' stuff, but this whole situation does feel really orwellian to me. Disappearing text, text which gets altered in the night and an undercurrent of secrecy on shifting sands. Threads here are helping to create a sense of continuity and reality, validating peoples' knowledge of things that have happened.

Spooky.

Edit: Motoki I read a fantastic book on bi-polar disorder, written by a woman who now runs some sort of large medical facility in the states. The author is a bi-polar sufferer who has chosen to be medicated by lithium in order to have a normal life and career, she grieves for the manic state though. She describes a manic state as almost godlike, everyone else is slow and stupid, there is an absolute certainty of being right. The world scintillates in crystal clarity. Then after a while everything spins faster and faster out of control. I've seen this with a friend, she told me it can be like very good speed. I wish I could remember the title and author of the book. The reason I mention this book is because it gives such an accurate portrayel of what it is like to live in a manic place, it has helped my understanding.

While I am in no way saying Rentech has a bi-polar disorder, that would be incredibly presumptuous to make a call like that about someone I hardly know, there is always a sliding scale to these things and some people are further along any arbitrary scale than others, in terms of what is acceptable behaviour. Her behaviour in this instance has upset a wide cross section of the sims2 community, from what I can make out, the behaviour is ouside the accepted norms for this community.

Actually, his goodbye thread is still there, I just checked.  It's locked though.  And I noticed something else.  I know a lot of people don't pay attention to reputation but I thought this was interesting in an ironic way.  I had like 16 or so reputation points before all this happened, but now I have 0.  I noticed that the rep box under my avatar is now gray instead of green.  When I hover my mouse over it, it says "rainbow is not okay."  Before it said "rainbow is okay."  TwoJeffs had two green boxes, which is what he had before.  I've given him lots of rep when I can, but you can only give once and then you have to give to others and only so much per day.  Lately I'd been giving Rentech neg rep for her off-the-wall posts, but now she has a full row of green boxes that say "Rentechd is cool."  Queen has almost as many and it says, "Queen is kind of cool."  JMP has almost a full row of red boxes that say he is "not that cool."  Out of curiosity, I looked up Inge, but she still has the one green box that says "Inge is just like you or me."  (Which isn't true because she isn't like me, I'm not okay, remember? :P)

So this just proves what others have said about that reputation rating system being a crock.  It means nothing because the admins can go in and fix the ratings on people they like or don't like.  It still ticks me off though.  Rentech has said nothing to me, except when I posted Phedge's potty hack that people requested, giving all due credit to Phedge, but she still pitched a fit and removed it.

What forum is that in? It must not be in a very high profile place. His section is gone and the front page is too busy bragging about Vampcat's gun to mention that oh, only their most high profile remaining modder has left. I admit to not reading the chat areas there, but I've seen several other people around various places asking what happened to TwoJeffs so I am apparently not the only one who overlooked this thread.

It's probably for the best in my case though, I don't want to see it. :P

It was in his Soapbox forum, but it was moved.  It's under Sims 2™ Community Links, Site Updates and Announcements  > Site Links.  I got to it from my Subscribed links page. 

Another interesting anomaly I've discovered is that my Contributor access has vanished.  I was going to delete my Elder undies upload since it's not needed anymore, but it seems I'm not allowed to do that.  I can't even access the attachment to remove it from the thread.  Also the thread I started with my toddler hair replacement upload has vanished entirely.  Other than that, everything is just peachy.  :P

So it got moved to "Site Links" but any linking to the site is "Blocked by Linked Site"? This gets better and better.  ;D

Noooo they have no clue what mess they walked into. personally Ive never heard of any of the new modders there

More drama.  I posted a reply on this thread back in July:

http://www.variousimmers.net/vsimforum/showthread.php?p=27112

It was right after JMP left VS, and Rentech instituted the reputation system.  As most of you might know, Rentech redid the "monikers" that relate to post count because if I recall correctly, JMP had something to do with the previous ones and she didn't like them.  So I mentioned that I noticed that everyone's moniker had changed in my post.  Now several months later, after several people have posted between then and now, she decides to reply to my post.  And she does so in a manner to make it sound as though I were obtuse and pointing out the obvious, although her post is filled with spelling errors as most of her posts lately are. ???  My comment about monikers had nothing to do with rep.  I try to point this out, but when I reply, my reply does not show up on the thread.  So I try posting again, with the same result.  It has yet to show up.  Someone else responded and their response went right through.  So I figure I must be on "moderated status" like Inge is, although I've not said anything over there in a long time.  It doesn't even show me as a moderated user as I have seen labeled on others' accounts.  I thought I'd share the latest in the continuing saga.   :-\

Here's the relevant portion of the thread and my response in case it never gets posted:

Old  July 15th, 2005, 06:26 PM       #23
rainbow
Jabberwocky
 
Status: Online
Posts/Thanks: 239/265
Thanked 51 Times in 33 Posts
Reputation: rainbow is not okay
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: North Carolina, USA
   
Re: Would you use a remove reputation button?
I have been using the add to reputation button but have yet to see anyone's reputation change. How much does it take to make it change? Also, has anyone noticed that everyone's moniker has changed?

Today, 03:43 PM        #34
Rentechd
Site Owner
 
Status: Offline
Posts/Thanks: 1,402/54
Thanked 1145 Times in 280 Posts
Reputation: Rentechd is coolRentechd is coolRentechd is coolRentechd is coolRentechd is coolRentechd is coolRentechd is coolRentechd is coolRentechd is cool
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Pacific Northwest
   
Re: Would you use a remove reputation button?
Quote:
Originally Posted by rainbow
I have been using the add to reputation button but have yet to see anyone's reputation change. How much does it take to make it change? Also, has anyone noticed that everyone's moniker has changed?

I made it clear from the being, that to avoid 'gie me reputation' posts that reputation has nothing to do with titles or 'moniker'. The Title a person, as a regular member is due to an algorythm based on number posts divided by a secret receipe to keep people from just posting to get the title change. Other titles are changed because some access leves have the right to use a custom title - it would not work to have rep cahnge a title someone picked from themselves or had to change back to what they wanted all the time.

All repulation goes is to making the reputation image darker or lighter or to add addition rep graphics. That is all it does.

My response which hasn't shown up yet.

I'm not sure why you are just now responding to this.  I originally posted this way back in July right after a certain modder left this site.  The monikers all changed at that time, and I had just noticed it.  It had nothing to do with the reputation button.

Speaking of which, I don't seem to have a reputation button anymore, do you know why that is?  I had 16 reputation points at one time, but they are gone now.

P.S.  I tried to post this before, but it didn't go through for some reason.

LOL I bet she went through here and wrote all our names down and put us all on moderated status. We've all got the scarlett letter it seems.

Eh? What? Did I miss something? What is it that I do? And if I don't do it, who does?

Oddysey: the Terminally Clueless.

I must agree, though. It is quite Orwellian. And I'm thinking that it may be time to bring out the "Ye Olde Revelator" schtick and unleash upon Rentech and Co. Or possibly point out, in a bad russian accent, that "Boris is not sending seven PMs, since Boris is not talking to anyone, let alone Rentech person. Boris would tell Rentech this himself, but is too busy leaving country to be involving self in paranoid fantasies."

I still occasionally read there, but haven't posted or tried to post in ages. I'll have to check to see if I'm on moderated or otherwise experiencing account weirdness. If I am, it may be time to dust off yet another persona. "Human, door, separate! Must fix!" <powers up arcwelder>

LOL Funny you should say that.  After my comment in Twojeffs goodbye thread she put me said status.  What I find even funnier is I haven't been back since and won't be going back.  Only my opinion but, Rentwit is seriously suffering from borderline personality or Bi-Polar disorder.  Hell maybe it's a mix of the two.

she is defntely suffering from something and you maybe right.I wonder how many more of us would be thrown into the same pool if she ventured over here to read what the majority of us really think of her bizarre behavior. personally speaking it would make my day if she would ban me or rather throw me into abyss aas has done to you and others here.

I'm really surprised my rep hasn't greyed out yet after my reply in rainbow's thread at VS. Maybe she didn't catch that I was mocking her typos...
Thank you for thanking me, rainbow!  ;)

well if she greys you out then I'm sure to be next as I just thanked you and replied to your post

Well, it's really all I could do. ;)

It was obvious that I was mocking her, wasn't it? It just occured to me that she may think "beginning" is actually spelled "being"...

I thought so, but you know how they say sarcasm is lost on some people...

yes it was obvious. however something tells me  Rentech Knows how beginning is spelled  but had her undies in a wad over Rainbows post. because Rentech doesnt appear to like anyone second guessing or questioning her  God -Complex. but thats just my own opinon any way

Oh the omnipotent self serving god (goddess) like Rentwit is the be all to end all.  She has achieved enlightenment and yeah…lost her damn mind.

Sounds like she has delusions of granduer and is a legend in her own mind

its a shame its a legend only in her own mind  :-\

I've said it before, and I'll say it again, the woman AIN'T RIGHT. In the name of all that's good, just ignore the silly cow and hope that someone will take pity on her and get her to the nearest quack. After all, I've read the posts she's made and they're definitely tinged with something that's not quite sane.

for the most part I do as she is failing miserably at being a legend in her own time ::)

(twitching)  Oh, so much, so much to say.  Just read all this, processing, wishing to God that I could process all this quicker. . . .

1)  I was the one who asked JMP about posting links on WorldSims.  I did, and they worked as far as I know.  I never once got any negative feedback about them not working, or about them not going to the exact thread I meant them to go to. 

2)  I had not posted much over there since JMP moved here.  When I did, I felt a negaitive undercurrent, not just from the Mods, but from those who remain regulars.  Just little, sarcastic comments that made me feel unwelcome.  Like the type little children make jokes at the expense of the substitue teacher.  The last straw was the Jack Thompson thing.  I have been VERY OUTSPOKEN against Jack Thompson and censorship of TS2 at every forum I visit.  In every other place I have posted, my comments seemed well-recieved.  Rentched threatened to ban me or anyone else who mentioned his name on her and closed the thread after my comments.  :(  I haven't went back.

Why? Let me guess, she supports his prudish nonsense?  ::)

apparently she does  and Thompson really seems to have it in for  the Sims 2  default Ken and  Barbie  bodies. he would no doubt have caniptions if he saw  my unblurred anatomically correct sims :-*

If he and Rennie have issues with that sort of non nude 'nudity' then they ought to take it up with Mattel because kids of have been seeing that on Barbie and Ken dolls since the 60s. :P

lots of luck if they think Mattel is going to listen to that nonsense :P

Wow. I don't normally follow all the nonsense that goes on w/ that site. But the fact that the siteowner has managed to piss off practically everyone in the sims community is just ridiculous. At this point, it'll only be a matter of time before her hypocritical, immoral ass sinks into complete irrelevance. Especially w/ 2jeffs gone, there's pretty much nothing holding her site up.

If only her ship'll sink quicker, cuz we definitely don't need this much drama in a game community.

Looks pretty obvious Rennie was looking up Rainbow's posts to see if there was any ammunition to "not-ban" her, and decided to post that out of context reply without looking at the date, her own previous post or bothering to actually read what Rainbow wrote.

Wait, wait...Rentech doesn't like Sim-style nudity, but she's fine with her modders creating guns that kill Sims? Or am I terribly, terribly confused now?

Seems that's about the size of it. But that's so very American. And I say this as an American, albeit certainly not one that thinks that way.

The game is like that too. How many different ways are their for sims to get killed or otherwise be violent with each other, but heaven forbid you see a naked baby's ass or an adult drinking alcohol.  ::)

It seemed that way before. That it was silly Maxis hadn't put simple things like alcohol in the game. But now because of all the attention and controversy over the JT scandal, I think Maxis thinks it should stay low and avoid those things. If they were to add those things, we all know he'd be back on their case with another. . case.

So what, some fool looking for attention gets to run the show? We all know what they are getting at when they drink "juice" or "blow bubbles" or "woohoo" and the euphamisms are silly nonsense to appease uptight conservatives like Rennie. They're also a double standard because it still doesn't explain why violence is okay, or gambling for that matter.

Don't get me wrong, I agree with you completely. It's more than obvious what our Sims are up to. (Although I never really associated the bubble blower with drugs or anything, especially because bubbles actually come out of it. I viewed more as laughing gas available for home use.) It's just that there will always be something that upsets someone, so Maxis has to make sure everyone can appreciate the game without being offended. They also want to keep a T rating. Who knows why. . They say they want to keep the game available to younger players and an M rating would prevent that. Bullwheedies. Remember San Andreas? Kids were playing it. And look, the new Harry Potter movie? A pg-13 rating.

I agree  they can Gamble at the poker tables  etc but  and all that stuff has to be buried with silly euphemisms but yet Rentech obviouly has no issue with  deadly violence ie the working hand gun mod in the game definitely a double standard there. I wouldnt use the handgun mod in my game if someone paid me too.I f violence is gonna erupt in my game it will be because one of my sims gets into a fight with another sim. and it wont be with a handgun either

Kngidomapaloce: Oh I know it's not what you personally think, you're just trying to explain the rationale behind it, but I still think it's silly.

I think it's far more disturbing that little kids play San Andreas than if they were to say, play the sims and it actually said *gasp* make love instead of woohoo. I also think it's extremely fucked up that no one gave a crap that kids were playing San Andreas until sex became involved.  ::)

Again, typical American double standard BS. :P

personally "woohoo is stupid term if you look at the pie menu try for a baby is right there as well  and I would venture to say that not many 13 year olds are so far in the backwoods that they dont how babies are made

Very good point, my friend.

San Andreas is misogynist in it's treatment of females too. My son plays this, I've had a game of pool in a bar with him in the game - the pool is excellently simulated by the way! The main character becomes more appealing to the girlfriend the more he exercises/dresses up/buys flowers/takes her out in the car/upgrades his car and so on. As the relationship improves he gets to take more liberties, it seems so formulaic and I wonder what messages it gives young people. The main character can also pick up hookers and make the old car rock. I'm pretty sure that was in the version before as well. I remember my son & his mate giggling hyterically in front of the PS one afternoon when they were about 14, they were running hookers down with their cars.  :-\

At least in the sims, there is an attempt at gender equality and a presentation of equal opportunities to all sims. I reckon Maxis have done pretty well on that front. I don't mind euphemisms for sex or bubble blowing if it means kids are legally allowed to play it, hell with the empasis on interaction, community and relationships that the gameplay entails, the sims has got to be better for young minds than some of the violent, misogynistic, anti-social, competitive crap that passes for games in the real world.

Oh I agree. It's not a bad game at all for kids, or anyone for that matter, to play compared to a lot of other stuff out there. And if nothing else, they get to find out that having a kid and having to take care of it isn't all fun and games, it's a pain in the ass! LOL

I guess I am more bothered by the fact that we live in a society that feels it needs such silly euphamisms than by the euphamisms themselves. That and the double standard that sexual related things are 'bad' and must hidden but violence is just fine to display in the open. But that's more of a problem I have with American society in general and TS2 is by no means the only or the worst example of that.

I watched my ex play this game once, and I really wasn't impressed.  He was showing me one time how they could pick up hookers and make the car rock and all that.  It really wasn't down my alley.  You make a good point about how it depicts women and what it's teaching young men.

Motoki:  I didn't recognize you at first with your new avatar!  Is this your latest nanny?  I've just about quit using nannies.

Oh, and I guess we all have to stop talking about Rentwit now, I mean Rentech, because "Kngidomapaloce" is getting annoyed.  :P
http://www.moreawesomethanyou.com/smf/index.php?topic=1340.msg45336#msg45336

The Sims 2 is constructive, making it infinitely better than almost all other games on the market. You actually have something to show for you effort, beyond a bunch of numbers.

And society in general is screwy, not just American. Vive la revolution! (As soon as I finish high school.)

Well I'm confused.  I broke down and was randomly flipping through the vs forums today, when I found this (http://www.variousimmers.net/vsimforum/showthread.php?t=1271)

Carrigon created a collection of buyable reward objects in July.  Twojeffs I can't remember when your collection came out so I don't know who did it first.


The second poster said they couldn't find the career objects, so Carrigon says to get it from twojeffs.

Um, but the first sentence in the thread says Career and Aspiration rewards, and the picture Carrigon gives has the Athletic reward.

And, isn't the counterfeiting machine an aspiration reward?  Why wouldn't that be included?

 ???

*scratches head*

*falls over*

If you type boolprop testingcheatsenabled true then unlockCareerRewards for the currently selected Sim, all career rewards are available in the reward panel  :)

I agree. I didn't have problems with my son and sex education, as he was ready he asked the questions and I answered to the best of my ability. When he was about 15 a funny thing happened. I'd been to the Dr to get some condoms, she gave me 2 dozen boxes which gobsmacked me - I didn't know if she was making comment on my sex life or whether her pen slipped as she meant to give me 2 dozen condoms.  :D Anyway we had a gross of condoms in the house, so one hot day I made a water balloon with one. Well it was all on, my son and his mates joined in and we had a glorious water fight. The boys used some for balloons at a party and I found exploded bits of condom here and there for the next several weeks. And the empty foil packets in his room.

So, the point of this shaggy dog story? It occurred to me that this had turned out to be a really cool way to get young guys handling condoms with confidence and no fear, free to experiment. I know he handed a few out to his mates too. Throughout his teenage years I always made sure there was a packet of condoms in the bathroom cupboard and, touch wood, I'm still not a grandmother yet.

So back to your comment Motoki, I agree society is hypocritical about sex. The more knowledge and confidence a young person has about sex, the more likely they are to make good decisions. They need to see sex is just a normal, natural part of life instead of something secret and dirty. IMHO of course. ;)

BTW I love the new nanny avatar, all she needs is fangs. Scare any kid to death, guaranteed.

Absolutely. If people were not so coy with their kids about what is purely a biological function and gave them the information they need - babies are hard work and demanding so forget having a life; it ain't a goddam doll! - perhaps we would see fewer teenagers in desperate straights.

I too am apalled that it's OK for working models of guns to be available for the sims and would never have one of those things in my game. The cartoon violence I can cope with, it's the idea of deliberate killing that disturbs me.

Yes well I am sure you saw my reply to that too. People over in that thread clubbing baby seals ain't go no room to talk. At least we're picking on an adult. :P

Well I guess that's Kngidomapaloce problem and they'll just have to get over it.  :P

Yes, I did, and I loved it.  His comment in another thread about female parts didn't impress me either.  But I digress.  We were talking about Rentech, right?  :D

I decided to try pm'ing Rentechd again.  I really would like my vs account deleted, and I'm feeling rather like a dog gnawing at a bone.

This time with 50% more throwing words back in her mouth!


EDIT: Ha!  Rentech responds:



I am foolishly replying for all it will achieve:

According to what Rentech said on that post, any user who is moderated will receive an email that they are now on moderated status and will have Moderated user as their title.  Neither of these have happened.  Yet my posts which I made 2 days ago still haven't shown up.  Does that not sound like moderation?

it sounds like it to me

Rentechd flat out lies in her next response to me:


And I somehow forgot that she replied to me originally?  Considering I only have 2 pm slots, I have to delete messages every time I post to her, you'd think I'd remember having to delete the first response to send my second request.

I have done nothing but straight cut and pastes from her responses, no editing whatsoever except to chop where she has quoted me.  I think she's gotten me confused with reggikko.  Wouldn't be the first time she's confused me with somebody else.

it's called twisting the tale to make you sound lik the villain

Hey if it was going on in the forum I could almost understand it, but she's lying to the very person she didn't send the message to!

My head hurts.

You know, at this point I don't think she knows her head from the whole in her ass. If she wasn't such a bitch I might actually feel sorry for her. :P

Vecki, it must be me she's thinking of. I almost also wrote her back, too,  citing her own "rules" and letting her know I had broken none of her rules and therefore should not be put on read-only status. Then I decided it would be a waste of my time since apparently none of us have access to Rentech-world, where reality changes on a minute-by-minute basis. So, what it boils down to is that after 90 days our accounts will be deleted. Geez.

And, yeah, I said I was going to let the matter drop, but it pisses me off.  Y'all have no idea how much I censor myself when I write about this.  :o

Well they probably don't get many visitors there.  The list of people currently online is generated in a confusing way and does not represent people who are actively viewing the site at the time.

I think what happens is one or both of two things:  When you set up your account you can choose how long to stay logged in for before the system sees you as logged out.  I think most of us set that as "forever" as it's fairly harmless on a site that isn't handling your money, and saves having to log in again.

Also on most forum s/w you can set the who's online list to show people who were last active in the last 5 mins, 30 mins, 60 mins or no time cutoff.   That could mean the list might show everyone who ever logged in.

Yes they still have some attractive stuff on the site, but not so much so that they would have more users online than MTS2 itself!!!

I couldn't agree more.

"Guns don't kill people. Nipples kill people!"  ???

thanks for the warning that Nipples are now considered deadly

Didn't you see Austin Powers? Of course they're deadly!

I'll take my chances.

/me volunteers as a test subject.  :D

Hook

Cheeky Hook!!  ;)

nah I cant stand Austin Powers

LOL!  Good one Brynne.

DawnRider wrote this in TJ's good-bye thread --
"A bit hypocritical to go to the bother of a sweet speech, do you not think? It obviously a joke you make and must make this site sadder then if you just left with your mouth shut. Leaving a site that allowed everyone your downloads, and seemed to have treated you very decently and go moving to a site that spends more time bashing this one then doing anything creative. Why be nice when you obviously enjoy and think this bashing is true and your going supports it. It is obvious your message is all false and snide.

Some of us have come to really want and love your mods so taking them to a site where access is not granted unless you are known to the owner and liked by the owner and willing to bash another site for no other reason then its fun for you to do so is an unkind thing to do to many of your fans."

I found this funny because I had no problem accessing this site and I am not known by the owner nor am I probably liked!  Some people don't understand sarcasm and jokes and that is so sad for them.  Of course theisz had the perfect response before Rentech locked the thread even though there was no name calling, but I guess the truth hurts.  Everything was nice in that thread until DawnRider had to open their mouth and start the screaming.  So typical of the hypocrisy at that site.

Oh well, glad I found JM and TJ here so there's no need for VS in my bookmarks.  And yes, nipples do kill people -- well, at least they kill fembots!

 ::)

This site would have been a ghost town from it's inception if J.M. allowed only those that he liked to be here!  :P

What an ill informed, ignorant piece of work DawnRider is!! Obviously he/she has never visited here (it's obviously beneath him/her to do so anyway) and hopefully he/she never gets the urge to do so!

If he/she ever does he/she will probably have garbage cans by the end of the day if he/she acts like that. Just like that capitan somebody or other guy.

Hmm 1604 members and he only allows those he Knows and likes here well if that were the case I suppose about 1600 of us  give or take should be  exiting stage left right about  now ::)

Ass??.......Servers???.......yeah, same thing LOL

Well, I decided to send Rentech a PM and ask her about why my contributor access was taken away as well as why I couldn't post and what happened with my rep.  Here's what I wrote followed by her response.

Who is MATY?  Is MATY a person?  Who demanded that my stuff be removed?  And let me point out one tiny little fact.  My stuff isn't posted over here.  So where does she get this from???  She totally ignored the rest of my questions too.

Ugh. That really pisses me off. Blatant lies! Does she really think you'll buy that?

I'm sure she's expecting rainbow to re-write her memory and go 'oh yes, now I remember!  I asked Pescado to put my stuff up!  Hang on, it's not on MATY!  Pescado's the villain!  How DARE he not put my stuff up!'

Oh my god!! If there was any doubt about Rentech's talent for fabrication this is the piece de resistance!!

Wow.  Remind me not to take any of whatever she's on... :o

She is really over the e dge now :-\

Well damn Rainbow if your hair has been here all along there must have been something wrong with my computer because I sure as hell haven't seen it and still don't. Maybe Mr. MATY is hiding it from us all. Well all of us except Rennie of course.  ::)

Rennie, time to up the dosage!!!

WTF?!? How can anyone - site or individual - request that someone else's stuff be removed?

I think I'll request that Rentech's stuff is removed from VS. Or Carrigon's.

I really wish I could close my account over there, it just feels icky now. I don't like leaving even a bit of me there.

Giggle!  Well when it was just me, I was sort of half thinking "wait, maybe I did do something wrong without understanding I had", but this is incredible.   I don't think she can really believe in what she says, surely she is really just doing it to be as annoying as she knows how to be?

Holy shit, she's really gone over the deep end! :o

Personally, I'm of the very firm opinion that she's having a breakdown - a serious, medical variety. The behaviour she's displaying is putting me in mind of a few service users I work with, and she need real help. Quite worrying.

Well if you're really serious, I wonder if she is actually fostering a child at the moment?  It wouldn't be good for an already vulnerable child to be in that atmosphere not that I am saying she'd be dangerous or anything.   But I don't really think it's that so much as an overdose of self-righteousness.

I don't know that retchead woman but why is she jeoulous of JM?   She don't make any mods, does she?   I have never downloaded anything by her.   ::)

Hee hee! "Retchead", that's quite fitting.  ;D

/me opens Rennie in SimPE and finds corrupted memories and all relationships at -100/-100. Should I repair or delete?

I use her crib mobiles to build body skill for toddlers and babies. One of my favourite mods, actually.

She's still as mad as a sack of ferrets, though.

Vector, I did the code for those mobiles to add the body points and stuff  :)  Ren did the mesh though.

Hah! One of yours, is it? That'll be why I like it, then.

vector,
laughing heartily

You just made me choke on my hot chocolate. Thanks a lot  ;D

Which IIRC ain't exactly the lowest in the poly count either, but she may have redone it at some point. The shapes on a crib mobile can easily be created via alpha channels though instead of meshing the individual shapes out. This also has the advantage of letting you do completely different shapes with just recolors and a flat plane alpha channeled can be any shape and only 4 polys if double sided.

By all accounts, Rentechd is behaving in ways that are, at the very least, paranoid and psychotic. There's something not right. And it stopped being funny to me some time ago. Mental health stuff is sufficiently raw with me that I can't laugh and point at someone who could be in quite severe distress.

I'd like to hope that if I ever had a total breakdown on the internet and none of my real-life friends noticed, some of my online friends would try to get me to a doctor. Does anyone know enough real-life information about her to try to get her some help? Is there anyone who she trusts & doesn't completely hate yet who could try to approach the situation with her? It's difficult, because when you're in that kind of state of paranoia, everyone is out to get you. So if someone tries to suggest that you're paranoid and need help, rather than considering the idea possible, that's another piece of ammunition to use against them :-/.

Ya know... I think that's going a bit far. I love those mobiles and if they really are so easy to do better, I sure wish people'd make more of them. I could use other designs and recolors and the like. I used Rentech's cradle for quite awhile before I saw another one as well (not to say no others were made that I didn't know about, but hers has been around for a good period) and people are always begging for baby and toddler stuff. I believe I've a few other things she's made here and there as well. Oh yeah, I really like the pirate ship too, except it's so attractive... I did know Inge coded the mobiles for her, but there were some things on her site she modded herself as well, yes? It seems as if she's taken some things down, but I believer there was more (an ashtray?) before. Even if not, doing good meshes is still doing something. ...yeah, she seems to be having some problems right now, but that doesn't just make the stuff she created no good. She has made things and they're good things and a fair number of people use them.

I don't think Rennie does simantics hacking at all, that's why Pescado or I used to help her out with those bits that needed doing on her objects.  Are you confusing some of her stuff with Carrigon's?

I think Carrigon did the ashtray. Pretty sure.
I have the pirate ship as well, and had to put it behind Inge's lockable gate to keep the flood of adults off of it! Why would my adult male Hall of Famer want to play on a pink and purple pirate ship? Jeez. I went into simpe, though, and changed it so only the kids will use it. I like it so much more, now. :D

Could be, does Carrigon have a cigarettes and ashtray thing?

But even if she never coded anything, I still think what she has created is worth something. She made the mobiles and then you added the code so they did something. Even without the bodybuilding, I'd still want the mobiles, and I dunno if it's easy to make them low polygon or whatever but so far as I know, no one has.

IMO, she has made good things and they're fun to have and I'm still glad she made them even if she is having a meltdown or something and having such a meltdown doesn't make what she created not as good.

uh... I'm glad you worked with her and added the code too (I like them fine the way they are) and I love all the stuff on your site and download and use tons of it... I'm not, in any way, trying to take away from what you do. Really I wish I was you - but I'll just have to be me temporarily.

I actually thought the pirate thing was interesting, and downloaded it, only to open it up in SimPE and find that it had about 10,000 faces! Are so many faces necessary for a bunch of boards? I mean, really.

I have no clue what the pirate ship is. I have the smokable cigarette though

I do believe I could do one with a lower polygon count and a bit more versatile if I wanted to yes. However, I really have no interest in making one. Modeling is tedious and time consuming and not something I'm personally willing to do for something I have no intention of ever using. It doesn't mean I can't critique someone else's model or to do so is "going to far". My sister does art and believe me she and her friends are critiquing other things all the time. Hell that was part of their curriculum to do that when they were at art college.

As someone who has modeled before, and someone who is aware of polygon counts and the fact that it's generally best to keep them as low as possible in games because there's a lot going on, yes I think I have a right to say someone could have done something a different way. There are certain techniques you can use to keep your polygon counts low and one of them is alpha channels. It really only works on flat objects or pieces, but it reduces the count a lot and allows for a lot of versatility.

I've seen a case where one modder made a plant using alpha channels to make the holes in the leaves and their plant was about 800 polygons. Another creator made a very similar plant that was 25,000 polygons because they meshed out every single curve and whole in all the plant leaves. To look at the plants in the game, they really looked pretty similar and there was nothing that made the high polygon one look better. In fact in my opinion and that of several other people when I posted the comparison, the low polygon one looked nicer.

So Sagana I do have some fucking clue what I am talking about. Rennie on the other hand has actually said at one point that polygon counts didn't matter at all which is total bullshit and if you don't believe me ask the guys at Maxis.

I composed a reply to Rentech, and I tried to be nice about it, stating the facts in a rational manner and not being accusatory.  I understand what you are saying, baratron, and it it's not really my intent to make fun of anyone who is mentally ill.  It's just frustrating, and talking about it here helps to release my frustration and get feedback that I'm not totally losing my mind!  I really don't know Rentech very well at all, certainly not enough to even mention anything like that to her.  I really don't want to argue with her, I just want to know what happened.  Here is the post I sent:

Well I may as well add my last response to Rentech on the account deletion matter.  I invited her to show me where she told me that I was on read-only access.

Surprise, surprise, there has been no response for the last 3 days:

I don't "do" art (professionally) - I'm a digital production manager, and you can critique all you want, but it's useless if you can't get it out the door.

You could - but you won't. It's too much work and you don't have the interest. That's fine and understandable and all. The things you do have interest in and make are cool too and I appreciate that. I don't make much of anything and nothing that I share - work is enough for me without doing it at home too - I appreciate everything people share with me.

Someone that will, did and they're useful and fun. I appreciate that a lot - I use them, and however much they could be made better, it helps me not at all, because they aren't available. Discouraging someone from doing them at all won't make the game more fun for me. If you could convince her (or someone else) to make them better, that would be - maybe they'd get made and be better - but I don't see how this is accomplishing that, nor likely to be.

What's going too far is to decide that everything nice someone did is worthless because noone likes them personally anymore.

I remember that Motoki. You started warning people about the polygon count way back when at MTS2. Many jumped on you for that, denying that it was true, someone even said you made that up to impress people. I believed you though, because what you said made sense, it was a highly logical thought process. I went into my downloads and took much of the stuff out that you said had the potential of being high poly, and guess what? My game ran far smoother, almost instantly.

Now everyone (except a few) include a face count into their creation description, and for that I am grateful.



Baratron, I know what you mean, but it is absolutely useless to force someone to get help, no matter what the problem is. If the person does not acknowledge that a problem exists, no one can help. I know that denial is very often a part of the symptoms, but just as you can't force a person with a substance abuse disorder to get clean, you can't force a person with mind disturbance to seek help.

I've seen it time and time again where a person is forced by court order, or family pressure, to undergo treatment, such as anger-management for instance, and the person does not feel that there is anything wrong with them. They go through the motions, and often the symptoms get worse. Even friends and family usually fail to convince the ill person that it is imparative that they seek aid, most of the time that only results in the person digging in their heels so to speak, and accuse everyone of conspiracy. It is a very sad fact, and I applaud everyone who has the resolve to acknowledge that they need help and then go and seek it. But unless it is done completely voluntary, it will be useless to even try and convince the person who is ill.

Illness, no matter of what origin is not an excuse to treat others as if they were practically worthless though. Treading on eggshells is just as useless as trying to convince someone in denial that they have a mental disturbance.

First off, I didn't tell her not to make anything. As if she would listen to me if I did!

Second, I actually DID make an attempt to make everyone aware of this issue. I think it worked to some degree because I stirred up enough noise about it that the counts got added in SimPE and major sites like TSR are posting their counts now.

What Rennie did on the other hand was to counter the awareness I was trying to raise with FALSE information that the polygon counts did not matter at all. As per her usual style, she made what more or less equated to a decree that this was so. Yet anyone who knows a damn about 3D modeling including Maxis says otherwise. But what do they know, they only made the game.  ::)

As I think this thread illustrates quite well, reasoning with Rennie is somewhat of a lost cause.


Well you're opinion that my expressing my opinion is accomplishing nothing is duly noted. And thrown the fuck out because I don't really give a shit and can say what the fuck I want.


Nice and worthless are in the eye of the beholder. I never said it was worthless. I said I thought it could have been done better. Even if I did say it was worthless, guess what? It's a fucking opinion. It's just what *I* think. DUH! It's not going too far to express an opinion, unless of course you are trying to do it at Variousimmers.

Motoki, I didn't quote you, nor address you, in the original post because I wasn't referring to you alone, but about the general tone of the posts above - though I can certainly see how you might have thought I meant you specifically, as I referred to wishing someone would make some more if it's that easy (referred to your post). Sorry for being confusing - I still didn't mean just you.

I know you attempted to make everyone aware of the polygon issue. I saw the original post. I deleted a bunch of high poly stuff myself (even beds - no sense having them, even just one, if I can't place them without blowing my game up. The mobiles don't blow my game up. Neither does the pirate ship - if you discount every adult playing on it all the time.) My game ran better for your help - still runs better. Thanks. I believe you improved meshing and the game in general.

I also saw the silly argument over the polygon stuff. I don't have an account at VS - never have, so I didn't have one to delete. I've downloaded something from there now and then. I read a thread or two about something I downloaded (to see if it's updated or if I have problems with it), but I've never socialized there. I saw a number of the original ...debates (at MTS2 - I've been hanging out there quite awhile) including Rennie's dramatic exit (twice) and well... held my distance...

Of course you can have and express any opinion you want. So I can I ;) What I'm posting is *my* opinion and I've the same right to have it, and to post it (thus far, anyways - I haven't been stuck in RL or whatever yet).

I think we aren't communicating very well. I've said my piece and have no wish to argue. I'm trying to think of a way to say I'll let it go without it sounding like I'm telling you not to respond, which isn't what I mean... just that unless I've something differenter or better way of saying it to add, I'll try and hush and not beat a dead horse.

Well you're right, I did take it as being aimed at me and if it was more general then I can accept that. I just felt singled out. :P

To be honest, I don't even know why I got so pissed off about it, I just did. Male PMS maybe (for the 100th time I'm not an old lady y'all :P)

Anyhow sorry to have bitten your head off.  :-[ Yes we are free to have an opinion that the other person's opinion is a waste of time.   :P

Bleh, I hate getting all nice and sappy after I get all riled up. LOL

While we are on the polygon subject... Motoki, is there a way for us amateurs (as in a nice, easy, and risk free way) to see how many polygons an objects has that we want to download? I've seen some nice stuff out there, but since it has potentially poly-high designs, I usually chicken out from downloading.

Any thoughts, hints, tips?

You can see it in SimPE. If you open the package, then select the GMDC (Geometric Data Container) on left hand side, select one of the entries in the upper right window, then down in the lower part of the screen there should be a tab called "3D Mesh". Select that and look for the Faces= and Vertices= and those are the counts.

Some objects have more than one GMDC, but usually it's just a shadow or bubbles for the bathtub or something like that and those counts are negligible and not worth worrying about. You can also preview the mesh in the 3D Mesh tab too. There's a preview button down below where the the counts are.

rofl.

ok, say something less nice and sappy. I can take it. I'm still waiting for Pescado to stick me in that newsbox (I'll probably make it someday - it'll be a point of honor.)

ya know, I really do have a hard time remembering you're not female ;) I wonder how much assumption of gender influences what we read here (yeah, I know, there are lots of boring studies about gender roles on the net already, but I still wonder.)

Veilchen, you can check the polycount in simpe (will let Motoki explain now, I'm generally clueless). But also, just as an extra note - if you place something and there's a slowdown on that lot (during day to night changes is when I notice most) *or* if you get those funky lines coming off some piece - it's way way way too high :) I have a nothing video card (and get no options on startup) but my lots load reasonably quickly and play smoothly even with 8 sims on them as long as I don't start adding a bunch of plants and beds and other such really cool but don't work well things.

Thanks Motoki, I will do that. I didn't know that poly-count depends on the creator, I thought it was a design issue. Like round, waves, knobs, etc = bad. I just looked at the (sometimes very appealing) stuff, sighed deeply, and moved on.

Edit: Beat me to posting Sagana ;D. Lines, what lines? Please people, do remember, I panik easily. A psychological left over from the jump bug in the original TS2, no doubt.

Well I only got "How be Motokiness?" No kick, didn't even get called stupid or a round mound of grey fatness. Heh, I must be the only person Pescado ever said anything that could be remotely construed as nice or friendly in the newsbox.

I'm insulted that I wasn't insulted!  ;D

It's hard to explain, I'll have to see if I can find a picture. It's like these really long sharp spikey points that stick a mile out from the object.  :o

So I would definitely know it when I saw it right? I still would like to see a picture though, because it sounds intriguing, plus I'm nosy.

Well, maybe it's because he can't figure out if you're really an old lady or not. Very few people want to clean up after an angry nanny.

otoh, Pescado is very few people, isn't he?


You can't really assume that just because it's round (or whatever), it's high poly. As Motoki was saying earlier, there's ways to make something look about as good without adding extra - one way is to, more or less, "paint" on the roundness using textures and alpha channels. A good artist can do amazing things.

I hope Motoki can find a picture as it's really hard to explain, but yeah you'd realize something was weird if you saw it. One of my favorite kitchens has a stove that does that in my game <sigh> I should go see if maybe the creator updated it and got the polycount down...

Well I'ved looked and looked and can't find a picture of it. I'm not sure what words to use to bring it up either. Searching for "spike" on sims sites brings up James Marsters sims and Dragonball Z hair. :P

If it happens to me again I will have to snap a picture. :(

*edit: Okay I finally found one. Had to go to TSR. :P

I'm not even sure where it's coming from in this picture though, looks like it's coming from the floor.  :o

[attachment deleted by admin]

Ooh I get that happening a lot!  I call it 'bleeding' because I couldn't think of another word for it.

It happens to random objects, Maxis or custom, it makes no difference.

Yes, to be honest I never really though it had anything to do with the polygon count other than that maybe indirectly contributes to the game and the lot just getting overloaded. *shrug* Not sure if it's a video card/driver issue or just the game's way of telling you you're pushing it too far.

I do know certain custom items were known to cause this to happen frequently for some people. In particular some of the earlier created beds did this.

I've never seen a Maxis item do it. I've got an emachine with a built-in video card (yes I know it's awful) - an extreme graphics something or another (the pc is being used by someone else or I'd be hogging it) and it only happens to me on CC with poly counts that bother the poor card. I'll take a pic of the stove tomorrow when I can get to the computer... it's obviously coming from that in my game (admittedly I had that house packed with stuff as well - maybe that was just the item that drove it over the edge). When I get that, I delete it (and usually prune too) and my game runs better.

The most obvious example I can think of a Maxis object doing it was the expensive telescope.  It was a solid bar of grey the height of the telescope stretching out into the distance.

Motoki, which one matters more, vertex or face?  Does anyone even agree on this?  I ask because I've occasionally downloaded something that seems to have an adequate face count, but Pe tells me it can't count the vertexes (verteces?) as there are too many.  Or maybe it's the other way round.  I've not been using these things since I figure if Pe can't count it, I don't want to.

I do appreciate the effort you made way back in the day. I even had that thread bookmarked for a while and kept going back to it to see if anything new had been added.

So that's what those weird lines are! I see them fairly often, and just assumed they were a result of my craptacular video card. So let me get this right, any custom object that spawns these lines is bad news, and should be given the arse ASAP?

I had this happen one time that I remember, only I didn't have any idea what it was at the time!  It was with a Uni student who was wearing that side ponytail hairstyle that came with Uni.  I thought it was a fluke because I never saw it before or since, and I think I would have noticed something like that.  She had been playing pool before she left for class, and I thought it was the pool cue sticking out of the side of her head!  I got some good pics of it.  I thought maybe when she came back from class it would be fixed, but it didn't.  I had her go to the mirror and change appearance without actually changing anything, and that fixed it.
(http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d152/rainbow2k/snapshot_af644d66_b038fe53.jpg)
(http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d152/rainbow2k/snapshot_af644d66_3038fb01.jpg)
(http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d152/rainbow2k/snapshot_af644d66_7038fb18.jpg)
(http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d152/rainbow2k/snapshot_af644d66_b038fb3f.jpg)

They're both connected. The vertices are the dots and faces are the shapes made by connecting the dots. If I recall correctly (and it's been a while since I checked into all this) the game will allow multiple vertices to share space while only having to render one. So I suppose that would make the face count more important. If it says "too many faces" in the box, it will still give the total face count above it. The too many faces is just sort of SimPE's way of red flagging a file as a potential high poly file.

The folder scanner tool on your downloads is also helpful for locating high potential high poly meshes. Just have it do the Health Scanner then when it's done click on Health to sort by the 'health' of the files and look for the ones it's reporting as too many faces, that's a good start to work with if you're trying to look for high poly meshes among your download.

Of course it will also catch some Maxis objects too heh ;) so you'll want to look at the object, see what it is and decide based on that. Like if it's a bed or a car 6k might be okay, but if it's a tiny flower then it probably isn't etc.

Sort of reminds me of that saying....walk softly and carry a big stick!!  :P

Ok that makes sense.  Thanks Motoki!  :-*

I know that I can't automatically assume that just because of the design, something has a high polycount, but I tried to keep away from potential threats ever since Motoki first started warning people. Back then, SimPe was but a gleam in Quaxi's eyes, and there was no easy way to find out the vertex count :D.

I didn't know that SimPe could do it, and even if I did, I wouldn't know how to find the tool that counts them. I use SimPe in the easy way, I am not very technically inclined. I know I could easily learn, but I have too much on my plate as it is.

Sorry about your stove Sagana, I know the feeling ;D

That is some of the weirdest looking stuff I've ever seen, Motoki and Rainbow. I definitely never seen anything like that in my game, my caution paid off then, no? Thanks for taking the time to dig them up, maybe it will solve some mysteries for other people as well.

Well, I got a response from Rentech, and I'm really confused.  Tell me what you all think.

[/QUOTE]

As for the reputation, I really don't understand what is going on.  Just now, I checked it, and it says I have 21 points as you said, and the square is green like everyone else's.  But I swear that yesterday it said I had 0 points and the box was grey, saying "rainbow is not okay."  Did you change something?[/quote]
[/quote]

Did she change something?? Oh I think the answer to this is obvious Rainbow, however I'm sure her reply will be something along the lines of "Yes I have adjusted all reputation points for everyone due to a glitch in the points tallying system.....freedom and justice for all....wordl!!"  ;)

As for the reputation, I really don't understand what is going on.  Just now, I checked it, and it says I have 21 points as you said, and the square is green like everyone else's.  But I swear that yesterday it said I had 0 points and the box was grey, saying "rainbow is not okay."  Did you change something?[/quote]
[/quote]

Did she change something?? Oh I think the answer to this is obvious Rainbow, however I'm sure her reply will be something along the lines of "Yes I have adjusted all reputation points for everyone due to a glitch in the points tallying system.....freedom and justice for all....wordl!!"  ;)
[/quote]you are no doubt correct. the fire is probably a bit too hot for Rentechs liking so the easy way out is to do just as you suggest. :P

Yes, I'm sure she did, but I was trying not to be accusatory.  I wanted to see what she will say and give her an opportunity to be honest. ;)

I use her garden chairs too and I have had pictures of her stuff and links on my site's front page when she made something particularly good.  But did she ever appreciate that?   No, I found out through the grapevine later that she was too concerned with slagging me off because she found I posted here a couple of times.  The irony was that I was posting here to *defend* the silly woman.  But her spy obviously only wanted to bring her the bad bits of the news.   That's why I feel sorry for Pam, she actually doesn't know who she can trust.   No wonder if she sometimes seems as if she's losing her grip, as her heart tells her one person is her friend while her head is trying to get her to see the opposite.

She's not got any clinical mental health problem IMHO, she's just responding to the circumstances as they have been presented to her by people she thinks she can trust.

It's obvious that Rentech is lying: I, obviously, could not possibly have contacted Rentech, since Rentech is not here, and I am STILL banned on Rentech.com. That kinda means we are incommunicado. How else would I contact Rentech, even if I cared to? Rentech must be confusing me with the voices in her head.

I don't think she's used to being questioned. It's a lot of kids it seems on VS lately, Rentech's probably become used to just issuing edicts. When intelligent people question her rationale, she builds even more elaborate deceptions to attempt to hide the fact she's been caught out. Unfortunately they're fairly transparent.

I got a reply from Rentech, and I think that I'm going to let this one go.  There's really not much else to say.

I think Pam has fallen victim to some malicious troublemaker and not necessarily someone we'd immediately think of.

A pseudo-Pescado??

Can't she compare IP numbers to know it's not really him?

No, I think it's something to do with the fact she leaves a lot of stuff to the other staff to alert her about, and any of them can put their own spin on things.   Having been told that something is an issue, she then sorts it out, in accordance to what she's been told.  And she isn't 100% confident about technical stuff like shell and IPs etc and has to rely on one or two of her staff for that sort of thing.   The information they convey back to her is as good as their intentions.   For example the "fact" that it would have shown in the logs she was given to look at if someone had edited my message.

Pam moans about people a lot, but I don't think she'd actually carry out malicious or unfair acts without having been heavily steered in that direction by another person.  I *used to* consider her a friend.  In a way I kinda miss her.   I hope one day if and when she gets time she will make the effort to find out for herself what I really have and have not done.

Yep Rainbow...............let it go........just as I think all involved should....Ren is ......jeez......it defies words, sympathy, etc ...it's just sad  :(

I don't really know... someone who really understands how the game works should answer. I also started deleting things that seemed like they'd cause a problem before you could check in simPE (but still wanted cool stuff) and that's one of the ways I decided, but I'd never heard before that Maxis items did it. I wouldn't have deleted the expensive telescope :) So maybe they're just a result of an overall overload, and it's not that particular item causing trouble. Even so, I'd say if you have lines, you probably want to cut down on the amount of stuff you have... (think that makes sense Motoki? :)

about those lines...

I had them with just the base game and uni - before any custom content was added at all.  Since nightlife was installed, there hasn't been a single line, despite now loading the game with custom content...

Thing is, when nightlife was installed, all my graphics settings dropped from high to medium. 

What I noticed, was that the more often I saved, the less it happened - so it got to the point where every time I saw a line, that was my cue to save the game - once it was saved, the line went away.  I also noticed that the hotter my computer got (gotta love Asus probe!), the worse the lines got.

My completely uneducated, wild, stab-in-the-dark theory is that it's just a general computer overload that causes the lines.

That's what I thought too, she's the site admin for god's sakes! She should have his IP too since he did post there in the past and apparently isn't completely banned.  ::)

Plus, if he's not banned or removed from the site, then how could someone else sign up with his name? Unless they did something like JM Pescado instead of J.M. Pescado and she just wasn't paying attention. *shrug*

And how can she not be good at technical stuff, doesn't the woman work at Microsoft? :P She's made meshes too and believe me learning those 3D programs ain't the easiest thing in the world.

If the problem is she's relying on other people and acting on second hand information then that's only going to cause her trouble and make her look like an ass in the end.

re: the lines

I think there's multiple reasons why people get them and they aren't always related. Some people seem to get them on Maxis stuff or random items and for others it is only very specific objects and always those objects. I do remember when custom meshes first came out there were a number of people who never had this problem before who suddenly starting getting it and it was always specific to certain objects getting the problem. If that is the case I would definitely get rid of the object.

If you've always had the problem on and off anyway I'd just try to live with it, save and reload, try not to overload the lot with too much stuff etc.  :-\ I'm not really sure what you can do other than that.

you could be correct in your thinking. but im sure theree is a way to check IP#'s to verify the site that is actually contacting them

LOL Inge, who's the diplomat now?

No one can convince me that she doesn't know what's going on. If she doesn't know by now, after getting all these PM's, she needs to rethink her staff issue. I started to go sour on VS after the censorship (such a dirty word) issue, and she responded to the posts that showed a different viewpoint then her own in very strong words. More or less it was in the way of "it's my site, I rule supreme, there shall be no other opinions beside mine, like it or lump it, shut up or I'll shut you up". No thank you, I'll deny you that kind of power over me, you don't have it and will never achieve it.

I don't let my employers or my professors get away with behavior such as this, I certainly will not let a simple website owner get away with it. That goes for any site or forum owner by the way. I might like the stuff that they offer, but if they piss me off, I'm leaving. I don't need their stuff that badly, as long as it's not a game-breaker repair. Even then I'd rather put up with a buggy game, then a buggy site owner (well, except maybe JM, but that is a whole other story with a whole other background ;D). 

As far as the thing with JM goes, I don't think it's even remotely possible that she does not have an eye out for anything that even remotely resembles the moniker 'JM Pescado' no matter how the individual letters are re-arranged. I've witnessed her drama at MTS2, but was willing to put that bad taste in my mouth aside, because there was a lot of garbage going on at MTS2 at the time. After her display of power madness in the censorship thread, and the idiocy that went on with JM behind the scenes, I decided that I would apply a concept that I usually dislike: 3 strikes, you're out.

You know, this thought has crossed my mind, as well. I don't know Rentech personally, but this behavior is either supremely irrational or she really believes that what she is saying is the truth. It's weird, either way.

Oh, cool! I've gotten "How be Brynneness" a couple of times. I didn't realize it was an honor!  :D Of course, not trying to make anyone jealous, but I have been stupid. A lot. I am a verrrrrrry stupid person. LOL

About Rentech's reply: have there been posts here about posting stuff on her site without JM's permission? Rentech implies there have been. I don't recall seeing any, so I wonder who is giving her this information?




Pun intended, Motoki? LOL

And rainbow, those pictures are too damn funny! Just what I needed today. A good laugh.  :D

I have lots more pictures of weird stuff.  I like taking pictures of weird glitchy stuff in my game.  I should start a site or something.

I'm going to have a section for this type stuff once I get my new site up. Put them there! For now, feel free to create an album on the group. I loves me some funny pics!

I'm stupid all the time, but certainly I'm jealous. I wanna be noticed being stupid! How does one accomplish this? Do I need to take out ads? I paid my bills, I'm sure I did, even got the one for the price of two great deal and the increase... isn't that enough? What more do these people want?

I think I'll do that tonight.  Check it out later and tell me what you think.

Bangelnuts, I don't wish to upset you but I have to say something, this issue is really annoying. I would be very grateful if you restrained yourself from quoting huge blocks of other peoples' text. I get an email that there's a new post on a thread. I think, cool, wonder what it is? I go to the thread and it's you again, quoting huge blocks of text, often with pictures, with just ROFL or LOFL or whatever it is you people add to the bottom.

Then I'm pissed off, I've read it all before, I agree it's funny, I don't need to be told, I don't want to have to scroll all the way past it the quotes before the conversation picks up again.

If you are having trouble managing quotes, or picking out the part you would like to comment on, PM me & I'll try to help.

Just today was a final straw - a huge quote with NOTHING on the bottom. :(  So disappointing.

Those strange lines or spikes are called "jaggies (http://www.webopedia.com/TERM/J/jaggies.html)". They occur when one vertex (corner) of a polygon, for some reason, gets calculated to be in an entirely wrong place. There are many reasons why this may happen, including:

1) Incorrect mesh design, with unnecessary extra polygons buried inside the mesh, which "pop out" when the object is deformed. (When I was playing with Milkshake & Sims 1 meshes, I was horrified by what lurked inside some of them).
2) Meshes that contain far more polygons than the system is capable of rendering. (High-resolution meshes in a low-resolution game or on a low-res display).
3) Temporary bugginess as the meshes of two different objects coincide unexpectedly. (Like a sim using an object while you have move_objects on so they interact with a slightly different part of it than usual).
4) Scaling problems, as a e.g. circular object is zoomed in on (http://lifesciences.asu.edu/bio508/notes/images/jaggies.gif) or as a static picture is zoomed in past its existing resolution (http://www.digicamhelp.com/what-are-jaggies/).

Jaggies occurred frequently on the Playstation 1, which had a graphics chip capable of far fewer polygons than Sony admitted to. As a result, there were quite a few games that were almost unplayable as your character approached things like mountains and cliffs; you'd get close to the mountain, where there were a lot of polygons making up the rock face, and suddenly polygons from your character or weapon would morph into the background and you'd get completely confused. Even the PS2 suffers from jaggies, although its are more normally confined to the edges of objects appearing rough (http://archive.gamespy.com/articles/january03/soulcalibur2multi/otherps2/4.jpg) rather than entire faces of the polygon getting randomly stretched.

I'm anal - I admit it up front :)

That web encyclopedia definition is talking about a print media effect (I live in the print world) - pixilated or what are sometimes called "bitmappy" images. An easy way to see an example is to type some text into photoshop (or paintshop or whatever) in a 1" x 1" square, and save it as a 72 dpi jpg. Reopen the 72 dpi file and increase it to fit on the largest piece of paper you can print and print it. Don't add resolution - just insist it print 11x17 or whatever. The edges of the text will show up all jagged and nasty (look at the letters that are supposed to be round - "a's" and "o's"). Open the paint program again and increase the page size and font size to actually fit the largest paper you can print and this time save it at 300 dpi. Reopen the large file and print again. Assuming you actually ended up with a decent resolution, and your printer can print the font, now the edges of round letters will look right, or at least better.

I deal with the jaggies daily as people don't seem to understand you can't download a picture from the internet and print it for display on a 36" x 54" banner... customers are nuts :) I'll trade one buggy sim for vector text and another for at least 150 dpi *at full size* art.

Ooooh I'm so with you there. You know the thumbnails google shows in a google image search? I have seen students copy those into their assignments, then stretch them to full A4 size, and want to know if the copy centre can blow them up to A3. AND THEY DON'T SEE ANYTHING WRONG WITH THE IMAGE ON THE SCREEN.

well, maybe that's a slight exaggeration, maybe not always the thumbnails - though it often seems like it - many of the students have not discovered the option that lets them get see large images, but often they'll pick a very small image and just not see the blurryness and pixelation when it's made really big.

At the other end of the spectrum are people who send photographs straight from their camera, through email. No resizing... They can't understand my complaints about a 10MB photo that arrives at 8,000 x 6,000 pixels. My display is only 1152 x 864, after all. And I have no intention of examining your cat's eyelashes for mites.

I heartily agree on the bitmappy images.  I work at a sportswear company and we screenprint on garments.  Customers and sales reps will tell us to get the graphics from the website.  Can't seem to understand that you can't take a 1x1 inch crappy 72 dpi jpeg and make a vector graphic that will work in an 11 inch size.  You can't tell any details on something that small and blurry.

Oi. Although I can kind of see how people would think they can blow internet pictures up and have them retain detail, if they're used to working with actual photos, since film picks up details the human eye can't even see without magnification. Computer images operate under the WYSIWYG principle.

But then, why are these people get images of the internet anyway? It's really, really hard to find decent pictures on the web.

Because they're cheap and don't want to pay a photographer, or even to get decent free source photos. And are too lazy to find out where the logos came from and get the company's provided vector/high res required for use ones.

They're too cheap to pay us too, or to pay anything for the work involved in making their not-so-great art work in large format. Customers are a pain ;) Shame they're kinda the point of a business...

Going by he students' attitudes, they think anything on the net is free source. When I tell the florists or the fashion design students they have to reference every picture, they give me looks of pure dumbstruck horror.  ::)

Besides, most pictures taken with a digital camera tend (in my opinion) to need to be color-corrected and adjusted in various ways before they're suitable for viewing. I always resize and color-correct my pictures before emailing them or putting them on my website or whatever. I guess it's likely that most people don't know how to resize images.

Slightly relevant to the slant this discussion has taken:

One time, my dad tried to make a logo for a tshirt using MS Word. He was trying to work with the tools he had, I guess, but it really, really wasn't working. He was using the "warp text" feature. Oh. My. God. I just about died. I wasn't sure whether to be embarrassed or amused. I had him email the word file to me (he had evidently been emailed one of the images to use IN A WORD FILE) and I was able to make a decent logo in photoshop (and I emailed it back as an image file, not in a word document!). Silly people. E-mailing pictures in word files and such.

We've gotten images in word files, too.  They can be exported, but they're still lousy.  And we have to work on Macs, so when they send us a PC file in MS Word - well, guess who gets to figure out how to make it usable.

We do most of our stuff with Illustrator.  Now, my boss also seems to think she can use any and every picture image file (jpeg, tiff, eps, etc.) in Illustrator and print it on the color laser printer and it should look great.  She doesn't know how to do anything in Photoshop except erase.  Not even convert from RGB to CMYK.  And she wanted me - ME - not US - to do this year's catalog in Illustrator instead of Quark Express.  All 60 pages.

Not gunna do it - wouldn't be prudent - at this juncture.