More Awesome Than You!

I confess I subscribe to Sim Chic and TSR before.
I don't have a choice because I want those things so much ...  :'(
And my wallet give way and spill the $ out.

So how many of you here (horrors!) give way like me? And where did you subscribe to?

CONFESS today  ;D

I am not your puppet.  :P

That means you did pay up.

come on, be manipulated.

*tags at puppet strings*  ;D

I confess I...

... don't pay for custom content.

I'm too cheap for that mess.   :P

Except for here, of course. You did pay your subscriptions here, right?

This is the only place I have to pay for. I miss Simslice objects, but I only ever used the Sims1 free stuff from there anyway.

I just don't think that it is worth it to pay for crap that I might not actually like once it is in the game, or even use.

But, that's probably because I'm broke.

Yes, of course.

And as far as cc goes, I have my back alley friends.

Damn! I forget to blame you JMP! Because of ur HIGH fees here , I have no $ left to pay for cc.
 ;D

I'm guessing you didn't take advantage of The Special, then.

*Sighs*  TSR and Simslice.  Both cancelled now, though I may pick up Simslice again for a month at some point to catch up on the stuff that's come out since.  Cuz once in a while they just come up with something really nifty.  (I use their Tree of Life all over the place, and I want the moving pond fishies and a few other things.)

TSR was worth it when I was first getting into the game and looking for bulk recolors of assorted items and hadn't figured out how to make them myself yet, but now that I've got plenty of that stuff stockpiled and I've learned how to make custom content, I just don't find much there that interests me anymore.

Oh.  And MATY, obviously.  Though occasionally it means I must do without food or heat or such.  Totally worth it.  :)

Besides MATY i won't pay for sims stuff not today not tomorrow, not even when hell freezes over.

Oh, goodness yes.  Paying my subcriptions for MATY is not mess.   ;)

I think this topic died a death a good while ago in another thread!

Topic: BRAAAAAAAAAINS!

Ooo..There has been a similar topic before? I am a newbie. I didn't know

Devilish grins   ;D

I get my MATY sub free now - or at least I jolly well ought to after yesterday in chat.  ;)

Having said that, I will probably lose the privileged position if I confess to subscribing to any other site, so let me just say "I don't".

Please note the inverted commas.

*Ears perk up*

Do tell!

yeah do tell.

I need my $40 back so that I could slurge them on other downloads.

* ;D ;D*

And Brynne,

Does ur back-alley friends need more friends?

Why, you wanna deal?

And again just now...   I've certainly got a twinkle in my eyes and a spring in my step these days  ;)

Whoa! Go Inge! And...Pes?

/me mops the telltale blood still oozing from her severed neck arteries and clears up some skull fragments...

Oh wow it must have been good. I miss all the fun in chat.

No thanks, I already paid at the ISP.

Charging for downloads? Ha ha ha ha ha (etc.)

Why not if its good?  ;)

Why do I have to confess? Have I sinned?...:)

I am member of 2-3 pay sites, and several donation sites. I find there special downloads, which I can't find in "free" sites. Plus, I think that the quality of the items made by the creators of the pay sites is higher than this in free sites. Sometimes it's worth to spend 2-3$, and get *just* what you were looking for, and not downloading many items that are *near*.

I like to replace the hot tubs each 8-10 days. No one of the free sites I looked posted the "right" design of the hot tubs - only pay sites, and donations sites.

I am glad that I can help these creators, who are our fellow simmers...:).

Gali, at last a few words of common sense!  I agree with you, they are our fellow simmers, and some sites are just so popular that they must use an incredible amount of bandwidth just for their freebies - so buying a sub or a donation set helps everyone, and shows your appreciation too.  Some sites, like Around the Sims, it's a one off payment forever!  - which is pretty good value, in my book!

Only the sin of stupidity Gali! I think it is silly to pay a subscription fee for something that is just content for a game, and for items that people make as a hobby. I refuse! While I understand having a few donation gifts to help with bandwidth, subscription fees are just ridiculous. And of all the worthwile donations you could give, like donations to starving ethiopians, etc, I think it is a waste of money. Don't encourage them!

Except MATY, of course. What would I do without MATY?

Well, we're all entitled to our own opinions on this, but at least if you've paid for something, and it doesn't work as stated, you can complain - if it's free, then all you can do is inform the creator that there's a problem.

Oh, you can still complain even if it's free. You'll just get smacked upside the head in return, most likely.

I should have said, you have the RIGHT to complain if you've paid for something, you don't have that RIGHT if it's free!

I do the same as Verona.  Really, I spend the majority of my free time playing the Sims.  So why not spend some extra money on it if I really want to, and I can get some extra enjoyment out of it?  I still spend more money on other things.

I will donate for sets that I really like, and I do suscribe to sites for a month to get everything I want.

My biggest problem is that I have to remember that my loading times and game lag, viewing pleasure, etc. is all perfectly fine when I don't have a ginormous Downloads folder.  So I won't be getting a new computer as long as that's the case, only culling the downloads to keep it to a level I'm comfortable with.

Well, whether you pay for your downloads, or get them free, the size of your downloads folder is due to downloading more than your PC can handle, and independent of the TYPE of download!  In fact, the sub-for-a-month and download everything is bad from that point of view, but donations and so forth don't make you download more!

And just because you've downloaded it, you don't HAVE to put it in your game!

I have on several occasions. I use to keep a subscription up at TSR and other various sites. Not now though.

I'm thinking about doing a one month at a couple of other sites that have some items I'd love to have.

Have to admit, I've given up on TSR now, it's too much hassle to sort the good stuff from the bad!

Oh, I know.  ;)  I have lots of stuff that I downloaded but don't have in the game (at least, not yet).

Two days ago, I deleted everything in my Downloads folder except for hair (all properly categorised, I just would have been pissed off at myself if I deleted it) after my Downloads folder got to two gigs.  I didn't do it because I had decided to play without CC, but because I was having I couldn't look at anything in the catalogue and think I was never going to use it.  I started downloading again, but this time I started with the stuff that I had donated/paid for, and free stuff after that.  I also am trying to be more realistic about my game habits, which is why I am not getting quite as many clothes as I used to have (or at least, not installing as many clothes as I used to have).

I'm finding it a lot easier to look at something on the site, especially something I had in the game previously, and remember that I never once used it and probably wouldn't.  TSR I've been saving for last because I have a few creators there that I absolutely love (and subsequently they probably get paid a fortune  ::)) and I hate that we have to rate every single thing now.

But if someone wants to pay for Downloads, I have nothing against that.

I even cough up the $40/month on this site!

Who wouldn't!

But I found the foolproof way to keep within 2GBs without sacrificing my downloads!  I run themed games, so far I have two plus the basic game folder, and I'm working on a third theme now.

I just did my maths. Assuming that I subscribed to different sites on rotation basis, by the end of base game + 7 EPs and 3 years later,
the cost of paying for these downloads would be almost the same cost as paying for the game +7 EPs.

And I don't believe that free stuff are not good ...look at mts2 - there are awesome stuff there!

But at the same time, good stuff with quality are almost always not free. We don't get to eat a free lunch and as a life stimulator, our sims don't to live a free lunch too...its just so sad  :(

But you have to agree that some sites are out to make a profit its not for maintaining the site. I mean US$9.95 a month! what kind of awesome site you need to maintain?
Its not even more awesome than this site! and I cough up a bloody US$40 here a month!  :o

Obviously some site owners are out to make a profit.  Making good new meshes can be time-consuming and arduous, and if a person has no other source of earned income, why not turn their abilities to make a profit - people do it in other spheres on the Internet, after all!  Whether you decide to buy or not is up to the individual, it's all a matter of choice. 

But I will say this in favour of pay-sites in general - they don't usually upload stuff that they haven't thoroughly tested. The same cannot always be said for free downloads.

Confess???            NEVER!!!    Torture me do youre worst!!!...YOu will never get a confession out of me!!!

Oh really?  ;) * Produces very sharp, pointy, poking stick, and begins to jab viciously at kewain*

Yes, back on topic. I don't subscribe to any sites. I have no money, I'm a student! I do get very tempted to donate sometimes, but I never get around to it in the end, especially at Peggy Sims, I love there stuff but never have enough money. I did have a subscription at TSR for the sims one, but it ran out years ago. Meh, oh well.

I do think it is fair though, that some sites are pay etc. These people obviously try their best to make stuff for the sims! ( Unless of course its just some scam, and is a website with utter rubbish) I do think it fair to charge for objects, if the standard is high!

There are some sites that I will never suscribe to, because I think they charge too much.  One particular site I'm thinking of is Peggy Sims.  There's not enough content on it to justify that much money.  I don't mind paying for something like TSR, because you can find a lot of nice stuff on it, and it's cheaper than Peggy Sims too.

I suppose it really depends on the individual spending the money then! I myself, love Peggy Sims stuff, and have noticed the price. Perhaps thats why I havent actually signed up, I was subconciously beating myself with my empty wallet.

Yeah, I think my tastes have changed a lot too, over the past months.  I used to love pretty much everything at sunair sims, now I don't like or want any of it.  Just happens, I s'pose.

There is no download worth paying for.

Except for MATY, that is.....

I myself will not pay for downloads (except here at MATY  ;)) because I am a college student and don't have a lot of extra money to spend, in addition to the initial purchase of the game. Also, I don't think that it is worth paying for downloads when I can get similar items for free, but I don't think it's wrong for people to charge, especially if the money if going towards the overhead cost of making the items available, i.e. costs of bandwidth, maintaining the website, paying the ISP.

*shrugs* I have acquaintances who've spent hundreds of dollars on ball-jointed dolls from Asia and then go spending more money on wigs, new eyes, clothes, etc. for them. My graphics card is pretty decent, so my Sims are just as pretty and much cheaper even if I occasionally pick up a month at a pay site.

Anyone know of any hobby that doesn't ultimately cost money?  Except maybe reading, if you limit yourself to the Public Library!

I don't see how this is anything to 'confess' to, but I don't pay for stuff for the game (yes, yes, except for here), as I resent it when I have bought a game and have to continue to pay for it. It's for this reason that I don't play online-only games with subscription fees like WoW either. I do have a lot of other leisure-activity items to spend my money on though, like books and art supplies.

I think it may be a bit fishy to require people to pay for custom content due tot he EULA of the game, but if EA isn't going to enforce it, well, what the hell. I only really mind it when a creator gets all "OMG don't alter my stuff in any way shape or form for any reason!!!111" - for gods' sakes, people, there's a little thing called Fair Use in copyright law and how are you going to enforce someone changing something for personal use, anyhow? I'm especially unimpressed by people who act like that regarding the content they make when they make clothing with photographs - I wonder if they have any clue how ridiculous that is?  :D

I think it's very difficult to make a distinction between paying for a download and paying a contribution towards the site costs.  Whichever it is,  it's down to personal choice in the end - nobody is twisting your arm to pay!

well I'm disabled and on a very limited income and I have a kid, so I have no extra money to pay for custom content (except for here of course)



I drool over some of the pay/donation hair at Peggy Sims 2 and TSR and other sites  :(  Thankfully some people share  :)


which reminds me, I was given "peggyhairmesh0009" with just the blonde color, if any one happens to have the others could you send them my way?  I really suck at recoloring hair  ::)  edit - got them, Thanks!

Now see this is the way I see it.

Firstly, no one makes anyone pay for downloads, if you don't want to, don't.  It really is that simple.  Everyone is entitled to their own opinion on paysites, and sure, say they suck if that's what you think.  But make sure you are actually saying it out of an ethical standpoint.  Not "Paysites suck becuase there's something I want on that site but I can't have it boo hoo!" Not that I am saying any of those who have expressed their opinion here is like that.  And believe me when I say if I did think that, I would say it.

I have downloaded from free sites and donation sites and subscription sites.  I have also created for free sites and donation sites, and subscription sites. It's my money, I can choose what to spend it on, and if that means I want to sub to a sims site, or if I was to hire a team of Russian Cossacks that's my choice.

There are some sites who are blatantly making a profit, but then so does every shop/store and if you want to get funny about people charging for game-related stuff, take a look on e-bay.  Not just CD's of sims downloads, (probably not created by the Seller at all) to plans and schematics for games like Eve-online.  At the end of the day we live in a consumer driven society.

What irks me about donation sites though is when sites split stes.  Like "Download out fansatic new FREE!! bedroom set (apart from the bed and dresser which are donation objects)  Well, it's either a free bedroom set, then the bed would be free since last I looked it was pretty essential for a bedroom to have a bed, or it's adonation set with freebies.  Let's stop getting the two confused.

And while I'm at it, about the diva-ish-ness of creators, I don't get that either.  Perhaps I am not of an artistic enough temprament.  Personally I create because I enjoy it.  not for fame, or glory or recognition.  I couldn't gove a hoot if no one has my stuff in ther game, or if a few do, or even if everyone does.  Big Whoop!  I enjoyed creating it, I enjoy having it in my game, so I choose to share with other who may or may not decide they like and want it too, but at the end of the day, take my stuff, redisribute it, cut and paste it into a franken-recolour, whatever.  Just as long as it's being used and enjoyed.  The constant diva tantrums of "Oh I saw somene upload my bikini I made to the exchange, now I shall never create again because my fragile ego can't stand the thought that all shall not know my name and bow before my truely might bikini creations!" it's just an attention seeking ploy, it's really a cry of "Quick, stroke my ego, I'm not feeling the love!"

You know I really dont think its a wise choice to keep broadcasting that certain people share pay content. It is theft plain and simple, I doubt that anyone of you would be so brazen as to broadcast that you can get so and so a free stereo from Best Buy because you bought one and you found a way to steal another one. I am just saying, I dont think its a good idea. You want to pm each other and share, great, but this broadcasting business is only going to bite you on the ass in the long run.

That is all I have to say on this subject matter. What I do in my spare time with my money is my business, and I have no crimes to confess.

Wise as always, Nectere!  And I totally agree with you, if you can't afford something, or aren't prepared to pay for it, for whatever reason, that's just the way it goes.  But unless a site is known to be File share Friendly, then sharing files is not on!  Some non-pay sites also prefer that you give a link to their site too.

Just want to be clear....The first rule of the fight club...

Hmmm. I donated to SimTeen once way back when for Sims1, because I really enjoyed having that hack and actually getting to grow up my kids, but it wasn't 'pay for'. As for that, I shared a subscription to TSR with a friend a year ago but I let it expire when I moved in RL and had less money. I also donated on the Sims1 Simslice site to get the weather machine, but that's about it. I've been tempted to lately, for some things, but I really can't afford it, so I don't, especially since I'm not even sure I can get the next expansion right now...

But what would you do with a team of Russian Cossacks?  :D


Oh man that drives me up the damn WALL. They're actually worse than the amatuer artists online who make a federal case over someone using a bit of their art as an lj background without asking.

What also irritates me is the ones who threaten to stop creating and leave the Internet FOR EVER because they've gotten mean comments. Oh noes.

I didn't know this was that type of confessional....... :P

<giggles> I know, I want to shout out "Good Leave!" I also can't stand when someone begs to have you thank them for it or to comment how great their item is but no bad comments please. Kind of pathetic and sad

I was at MTS2 the other day downloading stuff, and one of the creators actually said "Don't forget the thank you button!". I thought that was odd. I wouldn't want to be thanked if I had to tell someone to do it, unless it's by my son, but he's still in training on social etiquette.

And this is why MATY has no such button.

when I'm at mts2 downloading, if the creators mention the stupid thank you button at all, then I won't thank them! if it isn't mentioned then I do  ;)

And thank you for that.

I don't think I've ever thanked a creator at MTS2.  I rate everyone at TSR only because I have to if I want the rating folder to empty (and it drives me crazy if it's not).

Just to say I think that the MTS2 "Thanks" button is a great idea. I really wish to thank some folks there who share their fantastic creations. I know its time consuming to create all these and there is nothing wrong in me wanting to show my appreciation.

I always make sure I click the "thanks" button regardless of whether the person mentions it. If they do it for a hobby that's fine with me. If they want recongniton, that's also fine with me. The important thing is the download was shared FOC and I don't mind stroking egos to get it. Who doesn't want their egos stroked once a while to feel good? I would love it too, so would you.
And what's the name of this website?  ;D and whose ego we stroke all the time here?  ::)

Yes, my US$9.95 comment is made based on Peggy Sims2 site. I am so tempted now. I am practically dying for that bridal veil.
I am still resisting...but I don't know for how long.
By the way, did you guys know that semoi have a new site on her own and she has a new hair there she shared for free while its also paid content on TSR? Go grab it. Its a guy's hair.

And yes, I think we shouldn't share paid content 'publicly'. Its ok to do it in private as long as its discreet and we don't broadcast.

Yes, hobbies cost $. I am skipping buying a few shirts and having a few less sodas for my VL habit.

and I am not sure if that's right...I mean losing RL for VL hobby...so its a 'confession' in that sense, I guess. Not to imply paying for cc is a sin...

Do you have a link for semoi's site Jysudo?     I would love to go take a look.

 :)

U sure you want it. Don't blame me for the bulge in ur downloads folder. I will be back here shortly with the link. Need to search for it and her files are HUGE like 10 mb. I hope u are not on dial up.

Hmmmm    my downloads folder may not Thank You but I do.    I'm a sucker for nice clothes and genetics.

I also have high speed internet.   I haven't had a problem with downloading anything at MTS2 in the last couple of days.    Maybe I am one of the lucky ones.

Just called at the right time of day!

Meaning me Zephyr Zodiac?     Yes, I am a nighthawk.    When everyone else is sleeping I am usually surfing the net or lurking here reading the forums.     I need to get my laughs in for the day.

Thought so.  The problem I had wasn't with getting half a download, or a slow connection or anything like that, I just kept getting the file not found page!  so I think I too called at a quiet time, but someone was doing some maintenance!

 I may have been lucky then.    Awhile back the site was very slow for me.    I think this was just when they split the site and changed the format.    I stayed away for quite awhile because I found it just too frustrating.    I knew it wasn't my computer and I do have a high speed connection, so I just moved on.
I actually played my game more and managed to get my Downloads folder organized.   

Here you go.

http://seomi.zzo.net/

I been following her like a lurker.
She is no longer posting on MTs2. She has her own site and she has been uploading stuff to TSR and her own site.
Her site is free. So grab everything while you can 'cos if TSR is smart, they will make her an FA soon. And if she accepts, that's it. More $ spilling out of pockets and I will have no shirts to wear.

Thank You  Jysudo.     I'm going over to look now.

You are welcome. Sorry for long wait. I was distracted by RL for a while there. Enjoy! :)

If a person enjoys bowling, they may buy a bowling ball and shoes (or they may rent ball and shoes) and they still pay at the lane every time they bowl.  Subscription sites aren't any different.  The thing I find really funny is that The Sims isn't a game--it's a hobby!  The other day my sister was visiting and we had some paperwork to take care of for the attorney for our dad's estate.  I brought her into the office and she looked at my monitor and said, 'Good grief!  You've got so many shortcuts on your desktop!'  I just chuckled and said, 'Yeah, and look how many of them are for TS2!'  (http://www.springhole.net/smileys/lol2.gif)

I've yet to subscribe to any sites other than MATY because I find so many things on non-subscription sites that I don't even make it to subscription sites for a look see!  I was going to subscribe to Wood For Sims for TS1 but by the time I had money for it, TS2 was so close to release I didn't see the point.  I've just been waiting for some ready cash so I can give some donations to my faves, and I think also I will subscribe to TS2 version of Wood For Sims because her stuff is just too awesome! (http://www.springhole.net/smileys/drool.gif)

Hey, Seomi's latest hair is genetic!
Saves me the trouble from updating it. I fixed all the other styles.

You know, considering that she operates in China, and considering the US-Yuan exchange rate, and considering that the avg. Beijing family makes about $2,000 a yr, I'm betting she must make a fortune off of this game.

Meanwhile, there are tons of pple in China who can't even get a proper education b/c of money issues. Her stuff is good, and sometimes I'm *really* really tempted, but then I think of the utter waste it would be, funneling money into a game, when it could be put to better use, that I always stay my hand. Not that I have money to spare, anyways - college student and all that.

I also noticed that she got the polycounts lower for her two fancy female hairstyles and fixed the stretch when the head turns. So far they're more than worth the trouble it took to colourbin them.

I'm not in favor at all for those "non-awesome" paysites.

Let's just say that TSR is actually selling other people's content.  Supposedly your subscription fees are going towards bandwidth... and that was when the thing was still under $3 a month.  It's been a while since I checked that, but the last time I checked it was at LEAST $4 a month, probably a lot higher now.  Let's then look at MTS2, which although it suffers lag issues, has everything for free and is run of voluntary subscriptions.  Now, how come TSR can't do that?  Steve loves money, that's why.

About these people starting up sites and saying "Waaah!  I needz moneyz!"  How much people do you have coming to your site if you can't pay for it yourself?  There's a ten dollar a month service which allows 20GB of content to pass by, and that should be more than enough for a one person site.  Also, you shouldn't start a website if you're not going to pay for it out of your own pocket.

Feel free to keep paying loads of cash for to make your sims look slightly different but I won't be a part of it.

The trouble with voluntary subs is just that, they're voluntary - and if nobody volunteers, where does that leave you?  And 20Gb is nothing - 100 visitors download for an hour and it's gone!  So if a site is popular (because the content is good quality) then it can become very expensive for the site owner to maintain.

Whether or not a site is free or pay is surely the choice of the site owner - just as any other artist, they have the choice of whether to give their creations away for nothing, or to charge for them.  Equally, you, the simmer, have the choice whether or not to pay the subscription, buy the Donation set, or whatever.  Most Donations sets are around 3 /4 Euros max - about the cost of a pint of beer and a lot less than a packet of cigarettes.  (And they last a lot longer!)

How many of you go to Starbucks for the occasional (or daily) coffee.   Some of these subscriptions aren't even the cost of a mochachino (or whatever the heck it's called). 

I get more (and longer) enjoyement out of downloading content than I do drinking that one coffee.

I guess what I'm trying to say, is that, for the amount of money, it's well worth it for the enjoyement you get out it.  I pay more to see a movie, buy a paperpack or buy a CD than I do for most paid content.

Most site don't seem to be that greedy.  TSR probably has some hefty cost, bandwith, staff and content creators.  They are trying to be the WalMart of Sim downloading.  Are they making a profit?  Yeah, probably a hefty one.  But since we live in a capitalist society, profit is unfortunately not a dirty word.  I could cite a dozen worse example of greediness without even trying.  Starting with my gaz company.

Most pay sites seem to be reasonable enough.  Except for Vita Sims.  I don't know how they justify charging what they are charging for a site that never updates.

Hehe, I just picked up a bunch of Victorian stuff from that site (all donation stuff).  Also, I love their cars but the poly counts are absolutely outrageous.

The thing is, if you get a good donation set, you tend to use it in almost every house (some of my modern homes have as many as three or four simgedoehns tube Bathrooms!) so you get a lot of pleasure out of it.

There's an old saying "The labourer is worthy of his hire" and if you accept that, you also have to accept that creators of good sim objects deserve at the very least not to have to foot the bill for letting others use their creations.

I have sticky fingers, if I find something I like, well; finders keepers, losers suck!   I don't need anything that badly that I can't run my game without, if I was stuck with the Maxis original objects, well so be it, but these lovely people throw these downloads at me and who am I to say NO, I don't want to hurt their feelings, and all they ask in return is for a thank you or rating and I'm happy to oblige...   I have never paid for anything to anyone for their downloads and I never will.  If that's the end of Flowerchile on this site, it's been nice, thanks for a fun time...  ;D

Well, that's your choice, but I hope you realise that if it weren't for those people who are prepared to help site owners maintain their site (whether through donations, or subs, or site-hosting) there would be very little available for anyone to download.

Why start a site if you have to rely on others generosity to maintain it?
At least I'm being honest. ;)

Why open a shop if you need paying customers so you can pay the rent?

Because some people believe in sharing. I know, hard concept for some to get - especially in this me,me,me consumeristic society. A creator shares what they have - talent, time, etc and others appreciating what is shared, donate money to help maintain the site. My piddly little site was put up in order to share with others. I don't expect nor want any financial consideration for it. If I was actually offering something unique that many people can't share - coding mods, creating excellent meshes - and there was high traffic on the site, I would hope that others who appreciate my sharing of my talent would help me to continue "sharing" with others if the cost became too prohibitive for me to maintain myself.

A shop wouldn't be offering all these freebies.

Hey don't get me wrong, I doappreciate all the time and effort put into these things.  The question was "How many of you pay for downloads"?  Well I gave an honest answer. 

What's "3 for the price of 2", "buy one, get one free" but offering "freebies"?

I appreciate, Flowerchile, that yours was an honest answer, but even MTS2 need the occasional person to make a donation. 

I'm on a pension, a lot of people are on benefits of some kind or other, but they still believe in helping out where they can.  We lose too many good sites through site-owners being unable to underwrite the cost as it is.

If I want the items bad enough then I will.

My only problem with it is I've seen stuff on paysites I wouldn't download even if it were free.

Or when paysites will post a recolor of a free mesh then charge for it.

TSR, is okay but I don't want to dig through a bunch of crap just to get to the stuff that's worth paying for.

One simmers crap, is another simmers treasure!

Ya know, my husband would go ballistic if I even attempted to put any financial details over the internet.  So yeh, these sites are good and need help with running costs but who knows for sure who is running them?  Can you trust them with personal financial details?  I respect you ZZ and your opinion, but it is really bad business to get something up and running but not looking into the long-term reality of it.  I owned a Snack bar a few years ago, and wouldn't have dreamed of doing it without a plan, financially or otherwise.

Not trying to nitpick here, but I think you are missing the point. Yes, some people do this as a business - they are not the ones I am talking about. To start up a website can cost as little as $20/month. That's hardly something you need a business plan for and I believe the majority of people do this as a hobby and not a business. They are not looking at the long term profitability of it and some -gasp- aren't even looking to make any money doing it. Knowing almost zip about webpages (which I am desperately trying to remedy) I had a website up in less than a day and at very little cost to myself. As the website is thru the same company that provides my home DSL service, they didn't get any "personal" info from me for the website that they didn't already have in their files for my DSL service.

 ???

Seems to me you're taking this personally and that's not the idea.  I don't pay for downloads.  I don't think people should start sites with free downloads and rely on others to keep it running per donation.  Thats it.    All I was trying to say.  No offence intended.  No personal attacks made.
Okay??? :-X

Didn't think I was taking it personally but only offering my personal situation as an example as that's what I know.  :) I didn't pay for any downloads at first. The first site I paid at was TSR because I "wanted" certain items on that site. When it comes to TSR, I see that site as a business. I am "buying" downloads from them. There are several other little sites (Retail Sims comes to mind) that I absolutely adore what they have and don't mind tossing a few dollars at the creator if it helps having more people be able to access the stuff or keep the website up. I'm also perfectly ok with knowing that the money I toss at these sites also allows people who would rather spend their money elsewhere or can't afford the discretionary spending to download the stuff at no cost.

I also don't think there is a "right" or "wrong" answer to this. It will be based on an individual person's ethics. I'm more the lefty, hippie, commie let's all share and sing Peter, Paul and Mary songs type of person so I'm all for sharing downloads and supporting sites that aren't looking to make a profit. Doesn't make me right or better, but it does show that I act on my personal beliefs. Some people would be horrified to see money "wasted" on a hobby like the Sims and for those people, contributing or paying for downloads wouldn't be an appropriate choice.

*shrugs*

Bet some of those same people would put money in the church collection plate, though!  Or support a political party, or a football team!  As you say, simmiecal, it's a matter of personal choice, both from the point of view of the downloader, and the website owner.

From my own personal point of view all I can say is, my hobby (The sims of course) not only gives me a lot of pleasure, but sometimes I think it keeps me sane, and if buying the occasional download helps the site in question, getting the download also helps me to continue enjoying my game.

I usually try to make my own skins and genetics when I can.  If I *need* to download something, I'll try to avoid a paysite since...uh...yeah...

It's hard to pay for subscription fees.  Damn WoW and Sims (Maty) are expensive.   :D

 It always comes back to the same thing.    Some of us volunteer not only our money, but our time as well,
to things that are important to us.    One of my hobby's happens to be the sims.   I do it for me.   It keeps me home from the bars and away from the malls.    It also goes a long ways sometimes to keeping me sane.
It becomes "ME" time.   That's very important to be able to just relax and forget all about the multiple stresses we all accumulate in our daily lives.   And I do put money into the collection plate at church too. 

All the people who are kind enough to share their creations with us do it because they want to.  Not because they have to.     I will pay for a donation set if I see something I particularly want, or I will just donate if I feel like it.     But sometimes all the creator really wants is a little recognition or even a just a Thank You.   

It depends. If she lives in the city like Shanghai, she is noy going to get by with just makiing profit off that site. Shanghai is very expensive.
And she does have more free stuff than member downloads. I mean if its really* to maintain her site thats why she need US9.95, I might cough up the $? But does she really need that much money - is what I have been wondering...and her site is soooo....slow.

I am not sure of hosting fees. I have no idea how expensive they can be.
Can anyone enlighten me? I haven't run a website before...

Here's a funny little antecdote about The Sims and the way it can keep people occupied and seriously out of trouble or at least seriously out of a lot of duress they cause themselves.

My sister called me this evening ranting and raving over how my dad's estate is being settled.  The thing is, in the late 1970s my parents bought one acre of what was zoned commercial property and because they owned the adjoining property which had a business on it they were allowed to put a home there because the home was being used for business purposes.

Well, my mom and dad opened another business in the early to mid-1980s and when they'd run short of cash one of my sisters would chip in to help them.  Things weren't going great but doing okay for a start-up and my folks decided that since my sister had given them several thousand dollars they would give her the back one-third of that acre of property.  Because of some bad decisions on my dad's part, he ended up putting a mortgage on the property which was absolutely huge (payments of $850+ a month) so when he died there was still a bunch of debt on the property (almost $70,000).

Now since they had given a third of this land to my sister, that meant when we sold the property after Daddy's death, one-third of the sale money (minus realtor and closing costs) would go to her, then the remainder after the mortgage was to be split four ways.

Well, over the past several months my youngest sister apparently hasn't had anything better to do with her time than to plan on how she's going to spend this 'whopping' amount of money she's going to get from the inheritance.  She called me tonight just madder than hops because I had originally figured the money wrong and inadvertently told her she'd be getting about $3,000 more than she actually will.

Okay, now switch to my side.  During the time since the property's been sold, I've hardly taken the time to even think about the money I'll be getting.  Oh sure, once in a while I think about how great it'll be to have a new computer and we've lightly discussed a possible vacation plan.  Otherwise I've been spending my spare time at my computer, organizing my downloads and making new stuff for my game!  The thing is, 10 years ago I'd probably have been in the same boat my sister is in.  I'd have already had every penny of that money spent in my head!

One thing I can say for sure is I'm sooooo glad I have a great hobby that keeps my spare time occupied! 

Okay--now I'll make another response to some things I read above and are actually still in my head! (Like as if anyone wants my opinion!)

Flowerchile, when you use PayPal to send money to someone via the internet, the recipient gets no more information about you than your e-mail address and possibly your real address.  If this is web content which isn't going to be shipped, you don't even give them your real address.  PayPal isn't perfect (after all, eBay owns it) but it's a relatively quick and painless way to send money--for most people at least.  As for me, I don't know where I'd be at times without online shopping in general.  I sometimes have trouble getting to town and many things are in excess of 50 miles from where I live.  I've shopped online for around 6 or 7 years now and only ever had a couple of bad experiences, and one of those was a lamp I'd purchased through eBay which was broken upon arrival due to poor packaging and the seller wouldn't refund my money because I'd paid for insurance (she was clueless), and another was when one of my CC numbers got into the wrong hands somewhere and signed up for a subscription to an Anime porn site.  The CC issue was resolved satisfactorily.  In fact, that's one reason I'll use PayPal when it comes to some purchases because in most cases I can have them charged to my CC and have protection from the CC company.

-----------------
Now, about those websites.  We started ours up a few years back because I always liked making walls and floors for TS1 and couldn't see much point in keeping them to myself when I could share them.  We already had a 'reseller's' account with a web company so setting up another domain name was nothing.  As it is, I'm grandfathered in with this company to a terrifically low price of around $20 a month for a huge amount of bandwidth so I've always been reluctant to close the account.  So, my daughters and I got together and Bog Sims was born.

A few years back, though, I ran an information website for Zoo Tycoon and basically all of the downloads I had on that site were the ones released by Microsoft and I can tell you the amount of bandwidth that was eaten was nothing to sneeze at.  There were many sites with this same content and there were a few months when my site used almost all the bandwidth for my entire account.

We're only just now really starting to get our site together for TS2 (I worked all day today writing HTML for skins and object retextures) because unfortunately we had no time to do it until now.  I figure if bandwidth gets to be a problem we might put up a PayPal donation button or we'll just archive the old stuff.  While I really don't mind the thoughts of subscribing to a site with super stuff, I don't think I could try to force anyone to pay for my stuff (well, for one thing it's not THAT good! LOL).

I don't pay for custom content because 99% of the custom content out ther just doesn't interest me.  Sure, I have a bunch of custom floors and wall in my game, but every single one of them came with houses I've downloaded.  Which now that I think about it is the only thing I actually download other than the mods here.

My downloads folder is a grand total of 53.2 megs.  Now doesn't that make some of you jealous?   :)

I've tried downloading hair and clothes and objects and sims and everything else, including the kitchen sinks!.  And when I get to play around with them in-game they just leave much to be desired.  And eventually I delete them because I don't use them anymore and they're just clogging things up.

I'm quite content with mostly Maxis only content at the moment.  Even if some of it is a bit strange.  Like those everyday female adult clothes that came with NL that look more like patch-work bikinis with a scarf...

Why buy a game if you have to rely on creators' generosity...

Oh, forget it.

I love free stuff, but I also respect my fellow creators enough to occasionally chip in a little on costs...or for them to buy themselves a drink or a candy bar, or whatever, after they've slaved for several hours over a hot keyboard. I just DO NOT understand this pride that some people have about never having paid for anything.

You PAID Electronic Arts ~ one of the greediest corporations in the US ~ for the game. And you belittle CC creators for asking you to pay a dollar or two for the privilege of downloading their work?!? I just don't get it.

Avg. Shanghai salary is about the same. And, I mean, $10,000 is the avg. salary of the nouveau riche in China. If she gets just 100 people to fork out a subscription each month, that's about $12,000 a year. She's frigging rich by Chinese standards. And I'm betting that she gets more than just 100 subscriptions a month, judging by how ubiquitous her content is online.

And I get that this stuff does involve some investment of time and whatnot, but honestly, it's not that difficult - cutting and pasting and some smart image manipulation. If you have some talent, it comes out a bit better. Still stands that it's not that difficult. It doesn't sit well with me that doctors make less than she does. Maybe that's why healthcare is down the sh*thole over there. At least EA has developers developing code and whatnot. That's definitely a heck of a lot more involved than meshing or texturing. I can do meshing and textures, but I sure as hell can't develop complex AI code. And the code developing is bound to take a whole lot longer than a few hours fiddling w/ pictures.

So yeah, I have never, ever paid for a TS2 subscription, and I am definitely proud that I haven't.

Hey Dickwad, read carefully...I bought the game, I was quite happy with the game...Looking for some info lead me to websites telling me to have this and have that for free.  I respect the creators, more than you know, but I don't respect you.  I haven't belittled anyone so shove it where the sun don't shine.  I don't need you to read into my thoughts and opinions, or presume to know me; I am not proud that I've never paid, it's just a fact.  I gave an honest answer, next time I'll just lie.  Save me a lot of agro. >:(

Get bent.

And a big juicy rasberry to you.. ;)

Out of curiosity - have you done any skinning or meshing to know how difficult it is? I mostly ask because, well, I am unfortunately used to people who don't know nothin' about nothin' making statements about how 'easy' something is (usually with digital art - you just press a button! The computer does it all for you! That 30 hours wrangling a tablet did nothing towards the finished product)...

Not that I don't feel the same way about creators who take photos from fashion sites and paste them onto a skin - at least, when they throw a fit about it being theirs. Especially when they didn't do any seam matching or cleanup work. Shudder.

Ok I confess to paying for in the order of importance of course .1)MATY . 2)TSR(I love their stuff) 3)The Sims Vault. 4)The Sims Connection .(Their retail stuff is awesome). 5)Sim Chic .6)WDS (I rarely download from there so I will probably cancel soon) . 7) Valdea .Com  (one time donation)  8) Sussi (I pay per item).
  Free sites I use  1) MTS2 .2)Parsimonious 3) Retail Sims. 4)Mermaid Cove .5)Simological 6)MangoSims. and several other sites including Pronup for Custom Hair

I am disturbed you think that average Shanghai salary is US$2k a year.So I did a check with CNN daily http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/english/doc/2005-03/15/content_425174.htm
and realised that you are right. So what's up with the starbucks and Gucci in Shanghai? It makes me wonder who is buying them. Thanks for showing me the salary of Chinese. I had the impression that it is as high as folks in Hong Kong, Taiwan, Singapore, Korea etc.

In that case, you might just be right she making big bucks.

Hong Kong, Taiwan and Singapore are very westernised metropolises.  Hong Kong was, until 1997, the banking centre of the Far East.  Of course salaries in these cities will be higher than in mainland china, which has only recently embraced a form of commercialism.  Anything else is like expecting average salaries in the old East Germany to have matched those in West Germany the day after the wall fell!  Only a great sacrifice on the part of the West German people brought about  a speeding up of equalization in Germany, otherwise this kind of thing takes many years.

But once people have the awareness if what the lifestyle in very rich places can be like, they want it too, and some have the skills to go out and carve a piece of the action for themselves.

What you also don't know is how many friends, family etc., someone in China may be supporting with earnings like this.

Incidentally, my sister just got back from a week in Beijing for her graduation present. I will have to ask her what things were like, including prices, but from the little she's put on her LJ so far, there was tons and tons of shopping... (/random)

That doesn't surprise me - the Chinese are very good business people and once the economy started to open up, they would have been quick to seize opportunities.

Does it really matter if peggy sims is making a fortune or not she is only charging "market value" for what she does, and i also confess to paying lots of subscribtions , 8ds,simchic, tsr, peggy sims, simslice, sims connection, and i have paid for many donation sets over the years, and why not its my money i earned it and im entilted to spend it as i choose,

i also think that if sombody i dont know in a diffrent country is good enough to host there creations , using there own time and somtimes own money , surely they deserve a little somthing for there efforts, after all i wouldent expect terry pratchett to write his books for free , and if the person doing the creating items enjoys it does it as a hobby ect thats even better,

Well said, Holly!

If you actually read the whole of my post, you'd realize that yes, I have done skinning and meshing. Still, I personally find playing the game more fun than making stuff for it, so I don't create much.


There's the super-rich Chinese. And then there are the foreign expats living there. These places target these groups. The avg. Chinese couldn't afford Gucci w/ their year's salary. It's just like the fashion stores on Fifth Ave, what w/ their thousand dollar blouses and whatnot. Not everyone in NY can afford it, but obviously there are a select group of pple who can.


Spending a few hrs in front of the keyboard does not justify $40 for a 6 month subscription. That's the cost of the entire game, for goodness sakes, which I'm sure the creators laboured over for a much longer pd. of time. Novel writing also takes longer than skinning or meshing. People spend months & years laboring over a good novel. And the end result is still a few bucks for paperback, maybe $20 or so for hardcover. I just don't think the amount of effort put into skinning & meshing justifies the prices that some of these places charge.

Sure it's your money, but there are better ways to spend it, IMO.

I think that's basically the crux of the situation right there: 

It's everyone's money to spend how they see fit.  If they want to give money to a website that makes downloads for a game that they enjoy playing, then what does it matter to anyone else?  I spend money on what makes me happy.  This includes custom content for my game, the game itself, books, movies, dining out, alcohol  ;) and a few other things.

One person thinks it's a waste of money to spend even more on a game that we already pay (perhaps a lot if you upgraded your computer to handle it) for.  Well, that's fine; don't spend your money on it.  But who is anyone else to say anything about it?

Pardon, I missed that bit. I still think it's a bit odd to claim that meshing and skinning easy; it took me a number of hours to do a relatively simple recolour of some pants, and I'm pretty handy with Photoshop. Perhaps it depends on what one's standards of quality are.

Well, sure it took hours, and meshing might take a week, but if you ask me, it still isn't something worth paying for. This is still something that people are doing in their free time, as a hobby. I mean, if I spend 4 days making a house, I don't have the arrogance to assume that it was enough to justify asking someone to pay for it, since I do it for fun, and because I want to share something with other players. As far as I'm concerned, charging for custom content outside of trying to cover the cost of bandwidth is just greed.

I think its proberly fairly arrogant to expect people to run sites with quality custom content for free , what i think your failing to understand is running a site like tsr and such is very nearly a full time job so why shouldent they sell what they produce, if these people were say making cakes as a hobby and started to sell them at a bake sale or opened a shop they would be marked up in price by at least 3 times what it cost to make. would u complain about that , and if not how is a sims site so diffrent.

and to complete the metophor , i can bake cakes but when i want somthing special i will buy one ,

I also happen to know that some creators spend weeks working on a new mesh, just so they get it as near perfect as possible, with all the animations working correctly,  Meshing a bed is about far more than just making a new shape and some bedding.

Hmm.

I do art in my free time, as a hobby - and you'd better damn well believe I charge people if they want custom art or a print. So that argument doesn't wash with me.

I'm not interested in paying for custom content myself for various reasons and I find some practices of some creators suspect, but I'm not going to tell anyone that they are greedy because they ask for compensation for their time. Whether or not they created an item for fun or not is entirely beside the point.

I have a friend who's partner at one time was a championship bridge player and in his spare time ran a bridge magazine, and also at least once a year ran a course on board a cruise ship.  My friend used to go too, and obviously when the ship was in port, they were free to sight-see etc., so in effect, for indulging their hobby they got a free holiday.  I see nothing wrong in that, and the principle is the same - they gave up time and energy to help other people learn to do something they were good at, and the cruise company recompensed them with free board and lodging which happened to involve cruising the Mediterranean or the Caribbean!

Likewise, my sister's hobby is making dolls, from actually making the heads and legs etc., making the body, painting the face, then making the clothes.  she gets a lot of pleasure from this, but if someone asks her to make them a doll, then it's only right she should get paid for the time and effort involved!

Well, if you create enough high-quality items and catch the eye of and impress the right person, you could be hired for EA.  Look at HappyMoonBelly.

I don't see why this discussion had to turn into something ugly. :(

As many have mentioned, what we choose to spend our money on is up to us. Calling people stupid or insinuating they are ridiculous in some way for paying to download game enhancements is silly. Plenty of people spend money at bars, concerts, frequent eating out or other things I don't do,  how is it stupider to spend it extending the entertainment value of a game that would be otherwise shelved?

That said, apart from MATY, I haven't paid for anything, simply because I don't have a paypal account and am too lazy/stupid to set one up. This isn't a matter of pride, just a statement of fact. That I really haven't seen many pay items that were better than the fabulous stuff I've downloaded for free doesn't mean that I'm cheap, or unwilling to pay for someone's efforts, again, just too paranoid for paypal.
and I have so many downloads already.

It is interesting that I've so often come across sites with stuff that was moderately ok only to find it was a pay site. Sort of like doing a content purge and trying to delete that terrible pair of pants only to realize it's Maxis stuff.

I have spent a bit of time making clothing so it surprises me when I see clothes where details were overlooked. The wrong footwear for the mesh, countless 'photo-real' jeans that are a different colour from behind, have scrunchy bums or open flies revealing the inside back of them, shirts that have a collar and buttons on both front and back, seams or sleeves that don't line up... While I feel this is acceptable for free content (I can fix it if it's warranted) but it would really offend me if I'd paid (perhaps why I notice it more on pay sites)

If/when I get a paypal account, I probably will donate to a few of my favourite sites, but not because they are charging for something I want, more because I've really enjoyed the stuff I already have from them. Modders don't usually 'ask' for money, but apart from those on Maty, Inge has really improved the enjoyability of my game. SimChic, because so much of my clothing uses their meshes, Chriko for the same reason. Reflexsims because her furniture is in all my homes, Peggy? tough call, I love her stuff, but I've downloaded more than one tiny object with a mesh that took up the whole room and so many of her clothes show in every category... would probably still donate if I had it to spare.

I know it varies, but I live in a free country and have no problems spending my money where I see fit.

What I was trying to say. :'(

Okay..after a lot of thought I will apologise for pissing everyone off, it wasn't my intention to make anyone feel like I didn't respect them or appreciate what they do.

It was supposed to be so simple.


I won't play in here anymore.... :)

Hello,
  I do pay for downloads and I am tossed on the subject. If it is a per download charge well then you pay if you want and not if you dont. Thats an easy one. But the subs you pay for are different and since peggy has been mentioned so much lets start there. I paid the money and I got what I want off from the site. Now my sub is still good and I check everyday and nothing. It is the most expensive and to keep the people paying needs to be updated more often. Her stuff is great as are alot of others both free and pay. Not complaining about paying mind you just to kepp me paying need more updates. Another site that I wont mention charges sub fees which I paid and then they put the same downloads on mts2 for free. Now this one gets me a little upset and needless to say I wont pay again I will wait and get for free. I have tried my hand at this stuff and feel everyone should because untill you try it you just have no idea how much work actually goes into it. Way to much for me and all did I was try a simple recolor and then a simple mesh. Couldnt do it dont have the patience needed. So I think everything is worth something. File sharing? Well again Peggysims says you cant share publicly and you cant share your account which I have not done but she says nothing about private sharing which I have not done but then again I have never been asked to. I do not upload anything anywhere well frankly because I cant make anything and I wouldnt steal someone elses work and call it mine but if someone wanted something I have and privately asked me for it and I had paid for it yes I would share it. I dont know how many movies I have bought over the years watched them and passed them on to someone else. Samething. Walmarts didnt get their 24.99 because I shared as everyone does with one thing or another. Passed down old clothes? Made dinner for a friend? Supplied all the beer for a party? Sharing is part of nature and without it oh boy would we be in trouble. Well just thought I would share my opinion. Pay or not to pay really depends on how bad you want it and maxis put so much ugly in the game maybe it was because they wanted everyone to share.

What the hell does her being Chinese have to do with anything?  Should she charge less or not at all because she's from a poor country?  How do you know Peggy isn't a college student who is using the money from her site to pay for tuition or housing (which is actually expensive in the big cities of China)? 

I love how people attach all these lofty ideals of ethics and socioeconomics to pay sites.  Give me a break.  From the many nauseating threads I've read on this issue it sounds more to me like people are just pissy and mad that they either can't afford to pay for some content or their pride/"principles" won't let them and then the people who do pay for content feel like they have to be on the defensive for doing so.  I'm trying very hard to think back to a time in human history when people didn't make money off of what was essentially someone else's work and I'm coming up empty.  There's nothing wrong with paying for content and there's nothing wrong with charging for it.   It's not a matter of ethics or principles or solidarity within the gaming community.  Do you want to pay or not?  And to be quite frank, after you've answered that question for yourself, just shut up.

I have a themed hood so I am picky about what matches it.  Plus I think most stuff sucks anyway.  I have paid for a few little things but they are things I use all the time like Sussi's skins (the only skins I like).  I don't "do" subscriptions though I don't mind donating to some sites.  One site pissed me off last year though, myself and some others gave them decent donations and then a week later they said someone hurt their widdle feelings so they were not gonna make anything anymore.  Oh nice going you spineless ass.

If people want to subscribe to sites or pay for downloads, who cares?  No one died from them doing that.


This is teh funny but I prefer fuckwad better.

After playing EQ and Wow for years I vowed I would never pay for Sims subscriptions but I have to admit I have been sorely tempted here lately.  I just got a new computer that can actually handle the graphics and I have been download-happy seeing all the stuff I have been missing.  My favorite is hair and I found this one site that charged per item (I think it was $2.50 for this style that I REALLY, REALLY wanted) and I almost paid.  The only thing that stopped me was the fact that I lose my downloads sometimes and have to go back and get them (not terribly organized, plus it keeps the number down because I will leave out stuff I never used in the first place).  The only sites that I have been able to go back and get the stuff was here, MTS2 and Simlogical so I pretty much stick to those unless it is just decorative stuff like wallpapers and such.

Those bangs were so pretty though....

Well, now I really want to know which hair you're talking about.  Link?  :P

 I'm very curious also.    Did I mention I love genetics and clothing?   Lol   Please post a link for us sintrinity.

 :)

I had to go find it again (that disorganization kicking in again  :P).  The site seems difficult to navigate but it is http://www.rosesims2.net/.  I just love hair with bangs and some of hers are just so cute.  0027 is the one I was gonna get but several look really nice.

Yeah, that site has a lot of nice looking hair.  Damn it.

/me Must. Not. Buy.

I've got too many things happening in the next couple of weeks to afford any more downloads lol.  :P

Umm, kinda off topic but - what determines what style of hair a Sim likes or is it random like the food they want at restaurants?  I just love watching them after I take them to the mirror - kinda like RL - sometimes they laugh, sometimes they cry and every now and again they jump up and down clapping their little Sim hands.  It can take me a long time to figure out what will make them happy though.  I haven't been able to figure out if they consider all custom hair the same either.  More changing appearances to do...

Never mind, save the link and wait till your next payday!

Most of them don't like glasses and beards!  But some do - there's no telling.  I gave John Burb a totally bald head and glasses and he was pleased as anything!

It only looks nice bluesoup. Not sure about the paid ones but the free ones are simply horrible in the game especially men hais 009.
It has hideous transparency.

Concidentially, that is another cn website. The chinese are really talented at these! I love sunair and I am lucky I have a subscription to TSR to get every single one of her download... :-\

I believe their reaction is totally random, I've changed a sims hairstyle(or whatever) and then had them hate it, changed again (without actually changing anything) and they loved it  ::)

Actually, I think I've bought enough stuff in the past couple of weeks that I will not be buying anything else for my game for a good while.

Is simological still there? I did a google search and it looked like they're gone.

So how much has you spent? Perhaps we shld do a poll to see who's the champ is  :P
We seriously need a support group. Like I said, at the rate I am paying, my cc will cost almost as much as my game itself.
I wish I had a support group (my honest thought although I did mention before we need to be discreete haha)...I propose one to some people and they were like I am asking them to buy pirated simsgames or robbing a bank!  :(

I thought it was Simlogical, not Simological?

Uhh...lemme figure it out...

Prolly about $50 or so in the past month.

that's a lot. You won me :P

Lol, BlueSoup, call the repairman urgently, to fix those holes in your hands - money is leaking badly...:).

You won me too!!!

Let's try a better contest: Who's the biggest miser here?

That's easy. Those who refuse to pay a single cent!  ;)

Lately I feel miser - I want to buy the CD of Bridge Baron 16, and have to pay 100$ (including shipping), and can't make up mind nearly a month. I am very much like Blue, wish  to have all the things I  want, and I even donate here and there.

...Getting old...:).

Simlogical it is!  Google a misspelling and sometimes you find what you're looking for and sometimes you don't.  and as far as I know it's still there where it's been for a good long time!

ok who ever provided the link to all the yummy hair , owes me however as much its going to cost to get it , i can say no to anything but temptation ,

 as for biggest spender well im not far behind bluesoup . i think  im another who really could use a support group

I only pay at Around The Sims 2. Most of the stuff there is free anyway with a small number of "donator gift" items which are always worth having.
I've been using Around The Sims since I first had Sims1 and really trust the site and content. The owner is mac-using like me and the files always work properly and are of good quality.
Kudos to Around the Sims 2.

Or perhaps it depends on skill...
A tip for recolours though - the selective colour/colour balance tools are best for doing simple recolours - don't bother w/ the paintbrushes. If neither of those get you the colour you want, then layer a colour on top and then use the alpha + quick mask to delete unnecessary parts. And if you're doing a specific part of the img, just quick mask via the little thingy in the left hand corner.


College money or not, there's absolutely no reason for her to charge the amt. that she does for the stuff she makes, since she'd be making a ton of profit either way. That's what I was getting at, genius.

And pple making money from sim content is like Paris Hilton leeching off her daddy. Money for very little work. I actually happen to have a work ethic - hence my distaste for pple making money this way. Of course, not that you'd understand. Using 'Just shut up' as your own argument just shows the level of comprehension you're capable of.  :)

I agree that the hair at that site posted (Rose Sims) is very pretty, but I worry that it won't look good once it's in the game.  I've seen some beautiful hair on the web that looks very flat in the game.  Pronup sims has some beautiful hair which I use, but there were a couple of styles that I was disappointed in.  I was glad that I didn't pay for it, because I'd be really upset, just as I would if I were to pay $2.50 for one of these hairstyles only to find that it didn't look at all like I expected in the game.  Hair is one thing that is hard to do in the game, due to animations and the limitations that puts on making the hair look "natural."  I think Motoki said this better than me, but Maxis still has better tools for making hair that looks good in the game.  Some beautiful hairstyles I've just downloaded look great, but they just sit there like cardboard pasted to their heads, and I feel a bit let down.  Some people may think I'm an awful person, but I can't afford to pay anything for custom content.  That doesn't mean I can't look at it and say I wish it were available for free or that I wish I had the money to pay for it.  The analogies presented by others here don't hold up for me either, since I also do not have money to pay for books, movies, eating out, etc.  I may not even be able to buy OFB next month, but I'll live.  I haven't really gotten excited about it like I did NL.  I do put money in the offering plate at church because of my beliefs.  That money should come out first.  And whether you agree with that or not is your choice, I am not saying anything about anyone but myself.  Only that just because someone chooses to give money to their church does not automatically mean they should have money to pay for custom content for the Sims.  It doesn't compute.  Also, if I have debts such as credit card debt, I believe that my first obligation is to pay them off before I spend it elsewhere.  Especially with the high interest rates.  If I had no debts and I had money left over free and clear, then I might think about spending money for custom content, but I am nowhere near there.

Anyway, that's my 2.2 cents.

As mentioned, their free hair does suck. So it depends on if you want to take the risk...:P

So I suppose some guy who runs a hot dog stand on the street is like "Paris Hilton leeching off her daddy" because making hot dogs is very little work as well.  I could probably make a hot dog in a shorter amount of time than I could mesh hair for the game so why the hell are we paying for hot dogs??  Or anything that we either claim or think requires very little effort to make?  Oh, that's right, because no one is forcing us to. 

You sound like a pissy child stamping your feet because you can't get what you want.  This has nothing to do with work ethic and who are you to question anyone's work ethic when you know absolutely nothing about them?  You're right, I wouldn't understand.  Sorry, but I just can't wrap my mind around the idea of someone being so incredibly bitter over a game. 

And I stick by my "just shut up" argument.  This world and the Sims 2 community would be a much better place if people didn't take everything so goddamn seriously and just shut the hell up.  Did it ever occur to you in all of your anti-pay site fist pumping and "work ethic" pontifications that maybe some people charge for content because a)there will always be people out there willing to pay for it and b) they enjoy making objects, clothes, etc and would like to make money doing something that they enjoy? 

And I'm sure Paris Hilton has enough of her own money now that she doesn't have to use her father's (or "leech off of him" as you so not-bitterly put it).

It really kind of cracks me up that this has gotten so ugly over something so relatively trivial.

Ok I did it I took the risk at rosesims2 and just got one of the pay hair. It is much better than the freebie male hair I downloaded and instantly deleted but it does need some work. I will email her back and point out what is wrong and see if she fixes it. Oh by the way most sites you get your download right away and her site she emails them to you but she was really quick on getting it to me. I downloaded number 29 on page 7. Can post an in game pick if someone can tell how.

Pot calling the kettle black?   ;)

I don't pay for custom content (except for MATY!) and I don't think any less or more of people who do.  Hell, if I could afford it, I would go subscribe to some sites.

This is starting to turn into Retardo Land material, you know.

yeah i got 2 rosesims hairs and ive got to admit there great, and she sent a free gift,

and i wouldent say this has got ugly at all "lively debate" is a better term , people are entilted to there own opinon and i respect that , but youve got to admit "shut up" and "because i think its greedy" arnt great points

Hair is one of those things, I simply wont consider shelling out money for unless the creator can assure me that its animated, and it better come with rave reviews as well. I have seen far too many hairs that were obviously doctored in the pics or the screenie was taken at just the right angle so that you cant see the flaws, and then you get it in game and there are transparencies issues, gaps, its not animated, and or it just looks really crappy overall.

I can fix object meshes, and I can tweak some hair. But I havent seen that many objects that are pay, that need to be fixed, actually I havent seen all that many objects in general that have glaring issues, free or otherwise. Of course its usually pretty obvious if they are messed up and I just dont bother with them. Hair on the other hand, is very much a mixed bag. I havent gotten to the level of fixing the animation on hair yet, and why should I fix someone elses work especially if I had to pay for it? I just wont do it. I would rather learn to make my own hair than pay to fix someone elses. I dont mine snagging some hair if its part of a sub that I already have and checking it out, but I will never pay for hair by itself unless I am assured that its flawless, there are very few out there that meet this criteria, and oddly enough, they have all been free.

I'd agree with that.  I did take out a sub with Sims Connection, mainly for the hair, but also, of course, objects and clothing, and so far I've been reasonably satisfied with the ones I've actually installed, but hair from some pay sites is really poor quality.  On the other hand, I cannot fault any of Hairfish's creations over at Mermaid Cove!  And they're free!

I think with any paysite, you have to take your chance, just as you do with free sites, but if the stuff is poor, then you aren't likely to make a return visit!

I have encountered this so much.  Now I won't even bother downloading hair unless I have downloaded it from the creator before and been impressed with it.

A few weeks ago I downloaded a new hair mesh and recolors that looked stunning in the preview pictures.  Got into my game and it is the most horrid job I have ever seen in my life.  I need to take a screenshot..it's scary.  There are huge gaps and white spaces everywhere.

If I were you I'd put it in there anyway. Just because I could


*moons everyone* :D

I agree.  Hair and houses are the two thing that seem to be more unsatisfactory than most.  I end up deleting most of the hair I download, so I am not about to pay for hair, unless I can actually preview in the game. 

Houses have a different problem.   I have downloaded tons of houses but they never seem to satisfy me.  They often look great, but aren't workable.  Most of them I find, have rooms that are too small.  I downloaded a nice looking house once, spent about one hour changing the house with custom content, only to find that the bedrooms were so small, that it wouldn't even fit a double bed.  When i build a house, I add furniture to it, as I am building it, to judge the scale.  All bedrooms must fit at least a double bed and a dresser.  There must be enough room in the dinning room for a table, chairs and room to circulate.  In the living room, I must be able to put a sofa and 2 side tables, so that it's centered in the room.  Corridors must be at least 2 square wide.  All this requires adjustement as you are building it.  This often means that if you are following a floor plan, the result ends up bigger that it would be in reality. But that's a small compromise.  A lot of people simply follow their floor plan exactly, or use some kind of scale (one sims square equals xxx foot).  Those houses never work for me.

A lot of house builders seem to be more concerned with how the house looks from the outside than they are with how it works inside!  Great if all you want are some empty houses to fill up your neighbourhood view but useless for moving families you intend to play into!

And to go off at a tangent, why don't Fortune sims ever have the want to Move to a Bigger House?

you are so right about houses , when i first started playing i downloaded houses but now i build my own , because it seems that the people who make at lot of houses have never tried playing a full sim family in them , and i build all my houses with the view for expansion , as as the family gets bigger u need a bigger house and i hate moving my sims

I think that's it in a nutshell.  If people are willing to pay for things, other people will sell them things. If one doesn't like paysites, all one has to do is not subscribe/donate/pay.  If enough people act that way, paysites will no longer exist.  I could never get my head around these protracted arguments.  It's a very simple matter of demand channeling supply (and vice versa).

Flowerchile, I haven't read every entry in this thread, but I think it was very good of you to apologize, and I'm not sure anyone else remarked on it.

 

Yes, I'm sure this would be WAAAY to much trouble for the creators, but wouldn't it be great if there were brief videos modeling the hair? A little runway walk to make sure it swings and that body parts/gaps aren't there. Maybe for Sims 3....

I think I will kill my fotune sims if they ever dare to develop a want of big houses. I HATE big houses.
I am willing to pay for clothes (especially fashionable male clothes) and objects.  I like my doll houses to be pretty. If I am going to play dolly, the dolls must at least look right and the dollhouses shld be nice and pretty.


But recently I develop some weakness towards hair.

just out of intrest where did u get the preaty dolls house from ,

I don't build dollhouses. I download them off TSR. Pinecat's house  are pretty good doll houses.

Ye-eeess, that might have been helpful to me if it were still 1998 when I was new to photoshop.  Both methods are okay for a quick job or a non-dramatic colour change, but for a dramatic colour change (like when I changed khaki pants to bright orange) some areas need to be repainted to emphasize shadows and folds - best done on a seperate layer just in case one makes a huge mistake due to cat interference or whatever. Adding a texture is also considerably more time-consuming (although the clone tool is invaluable), and of course adding details like buckles, labels, seams, and et cetera takes extra time as they need to be painted on. It's easier if one can cut-and-paste the details from something else but some painting and tweaking is always needed to properly integrate the pasted details.

Lately I've been wondering just how easy it really is to paste a photo over for the texture and have it look good. There is a person on MTS2 (with the obligatory "DON'T STEAL MY STUFF!" line in her signature ;) ) who has been producing a number of clothing items lately that are pasted photos. In some cases she used a mesh that doesn't match the texture so it only looks good from straight on, and all that I've examined have badly mismatched seams. Pasting a photo might be easy, but I'm starting to think that actually making it look good is quite another matter...

Plus if you got the photo from a fashion website, there's a whole other issue of copyright!  Now, copying the photo to produce your own clothing is different, it would never exactly resemble the original, and of course, it wouldn't be the original.

I don't see myself pumping my fists, so I really don't know what you're talking about.  :P

Selling hot dogs involves standing in the elements, in the bitter cold at negative temperatures, in the rain and snow, summers w/out air conditioning. I've seen many vendors out on the street in terrible weather. So yeah, their job is definitely more difficult than sitting in front of a computer fiddling with pictures. Not that I eat hot dogs anyway. Do you know what they put in that stuff?

"The world would be a better place...yada yada" - Well, make sweeping, unsubstantiated generalizations much? Accepting pay content is going to solve all the world's problems, huh? I wonder if Bush knows that.  :D

And money begets money. I'm sure you've realized that?


Hey, you said recolours took you ages. I just assumed the worst is all. Why anyone would want hot orange pants I don't know, but still, a few touch-ups with a brush isn't what I'd call difficult.


It is getting pretty silly. Well, it's your call.

I am just curious, do you make custom content? Like clothes and hair and stuff? (not walls and floors) Do you mesh? Or mod stuff?

She said she did earlier, but it apparently doesn't exist anywhere. Talk is cheap!

Ouchie ouch.  Took some time off and boy did this turn nasty.  Not that it means much but - I don't mind paying for a one time good deal since I just can't be bothered to figure out how to do it myself.  I have no problem whatsoever paying someone else to create something I would love to have but don't have the discipline or know-how to make myself.  Buyer Beware though.  I don't always like what I buy but such is life.

Now - subscriptions.  Not gonna pay someone that I may not even want something from (or I may just forget about)  I just got a charge on my card for a one year subscription to Allakhazam from my old EQ days for 29.95.  I can't even remember the last time I used that site but that is what alot of subscription sites rely on (I am also a member of Realarcade which bites me constantly because I am too lazy to call their 1-800 number and cancel)

Kinda reminds me of car insurance.  I have been paying for over 20 years with never a claim..  I think I should get a consolation prize of a new car or something by now  ::)

I am probably going to buy that hair but I will wait until I do a clean load with OFB and start integrating downloads in.  I always do without downoads until I just can't take it anymore  ;D

Unless the site is enormous, you can usually get all you want from it with a one month sub - at least that's my opinion.  Interestingly, subbing for one month is often cheaper than a couple of donation sets, too!

i think thats becasue with a donation set its like a good will payment to keep the rest of the site free ,and a subscibtion everybody pays so the cost of the site is spilt between more people , (if that makes sense) which i dont have a promblem with normally except when simslice was a "free" site most of the objects were in donation packs with cost over $75 to purchase them all ,now that is a rip off ,

Well, I think with either kind of site, a lot depends on how much free stuff is being subsidised.  When Sandy at AroundTheSims can do it all for a one-off, in perpetuity subscription, for which you get some nice gifts, and the ability to download everything at once, instead of one item at a time, one does begin to wonder how much of some site's "donations" are really just for keepin the site going.  I don't have a problem with them making a profit, but I do have a problem if they aren't up-front.

I have to agree that $75.00 is a rip off  and more so when the claim  from a site is  how "free" it is. I have my share of subscriptions  to sites such as the sims vault  and TSR but at least those sites dont claim to be "free" while both sites do have freebies.I also have other sites I subscribe to or pay for a month here or there and sites that I will buy a "donation" Item from here and there. My most costly but  also my most important subscription is MATY..

I have two opposing views on the subscription cost of MATY.  On one hand, it's a bargain if my monthly fees are going to help JM get the game, which will ensure my game stays Awesome-ized.

On the other hand, all the hacks are free, so all I'm really paying for is the privelege to post.  :P

And on that note, congratulations you whiny wussy, ZZ.  ;)

He's scraping the barrel a bit now, isn't he!  I'm still wondering about XYZ!

Maybe he should just make ZZ stand for ZephyrZodiac!  Since you'll probably be the first and one of the few who actually reach that.

But just think - if he reaches it, he'd have to call himself Zephyr Zodiac too!

Actually, he won't because as site owner, he has a custom title.  You'll notice the standard titles don't apply to members of the senate either.

Joke, Joyce! ;D

I do agree that paying for a 30 days sub is better than a donation side. I really like Carol at 4ever sim fantasy's donation set but at 3.50 euros, its too much for my wallet to take, even if she promises 50 -75 new meshes. And let's face it, I will only use that donation set in a few houses. so that is not worth it.
But if Carol considers a sub fee , I will sign up.

And for TSR, even with a 2 months sub, I don't download much. I only download 2000 items (which to me are not crap). I go for quality and not quantity. I rather pay for a good item than to get 10 lousy items.

Speaking of which, TSr has been recruting too many FAs. Some of their works are like crap and I don't understand how they get FA-ised :P

And Maty the only site worth every single cent of my $.  :D

I would love it if 4ESF got a subscription policy, rather than a set-donation.  It'd be much cheaper, and I'd definitely sub for that.  She updates all the time.

Don't have. If she have, I won't be here talking about it.
and she doesn't update all the time maybe once a while but not frequent. but its worth paying US$5 for 1 month to get all the donation sets :P

Well, she updates often enough for me.  She has one of the biggest subfolders in my Downloads folder.

Same here. But sad thing is not many recolors.
Maybe we could post a suggestion to her. Carol is one person I don't mind she makes a profit. She is awesome so is her son.

I have trouble sometimes telling when you're joking.   :-\

I have nearly all her stuff and I use it a lot - same goes for Sim Gedoehns. 

At least every time there's an new donation set at 4ESF2. there's a free set as well!  And some of the free sets I like even more than the donation ones!

However, there's one free site that I'd gladly donate to, simply because the quality of the stuff there is so brilliant (at least, in my opinion) just to show my appreciation, and that's Sims2Play - and Shoukier now nearly always includes recolours. 

Now that Shoukier is at TSR, I've been catching some of her stuff there too.

Well, I don't have a sub there any more so I tend not to go looking!  Has she got much there?

It's really annoyed me how, in the past, when other site owners have ended up there, it's ended up swallowing them whole!  Also really annoyed me when all the Sims 1  Secret sims stuff was being put up there - at the time it was nearly all stuff I already had and had in many cases donated for - and for ages there was nothing for me to download because I already had it!

I would sub to 4ESF as well if she ever gets a subscription policy as it is I limit downloads from there because the cost really adds up quickly when its per set

I propose a share policy once discreetly and some people thought I am asking them to rob a bank. I am no bank robber. I just cannot afford to spend so much on subs. I am so skinny I cannot reduce my soda intakes anymore and I don't wanna go topless :P

But its ok. I *ahem* have got what I want for the time being so I am *ahem* satisfied for the time being again.  :P
Carol's stuff are good and I have been so tempted for the donation sets before but I really cannot afford the 3.50 donation sets. so its a no go. I use almost all her stuff one way or another in my homes.

But I am curious: Does any of you ever pay for her donation sets before? Are they that good. I got my keen eye on a bathroom and bedroom set. I am a sucker for bathroom and bedroom decos.

ETA: Sunair is at TSR but she still updates her free site as and when.
Actually, is sunair one person or one group. I can't imagine how one gal can update so much and still have a RL.

Yes, I have paid for a few of the 4ESF sets - Bedroom 8, Bathrooms 3 & 5, and Kitchen 5.  All totally worth it.  I use them all a lot (especially the kitchen fridge).  I really like them.  And I tend to agree, I use a lot of Holy Simoly (couches and lamps) and 4ESF in my Sims houses.  I have found so many recolours of the Arizona couch mesh that I can make any room with those couches look totally different.

Sunair, I think, is one woman.  But I can't be totally sure.  And perhaps she doesn't have a real life.  I don't have much of one.  :-[  Also, I've noticed a lot of creators don't really play the games either, they just keep churning out those awesome creations for me to download.  ;D

Sunair churns out more than 800 items after 3 months of being FA. I wonder how can one gal do that. Unless she doesn't study or have a job but she doesn't operate paysite so she is not peggy sims.


LOL..hmmm...i noticed ur donations set...I need to take a look at them *wink*
Looks like u are a sucker for bedroom and bathrooms like me evil luffs.

Sunair had a smallish site to begin with and at first updates were infrequent and small, so I would say she had a lot of stuff in the pipeline which she was working on until she was satisfied with them.

Good creators do play, if only a test house or two to put their stuff into and check that it works.  You really can't just create a mesh and offer it to others if you haven't tested it pretty thoroughly yourself first, or your inbox would be bursting at the seams with complaints!

I have to confess, I'm a sucker for 4ESF2 and I have everything but one bathroom (which I'll probably get sometime too....) and I use her stuff a lot if I'm running a modern theme.

I had that thought also. Robbery is good!

Good ol' British Stee...eeh!...humour  ;)

Stee? ???

Steel. Like, British Steel. Like the infamous Judas Priest album. I was listening to that very album when I wrote my reply.

Edit: just noticed I missed out the whole of page 3 of this thread before posting. Wow me! Senility is catching up at the age of 31!

But JM, you don't even need to rob. As far as I tell from ur screenshots, you didnt even have a single cc! :P

Perhaps he keeps them on lots he doesn't post screenshots of?  I mean, how could he pass up such things as the Samurai sword at Avenida?  Or the hunters' gun and trophies at SimsConnection?

And I'm sure he has Inge's prison installed, and coolone is one of the inmates!

He has a few custom outfits for specific Sims (like Sim-Brynne for instance has her hair), but I asked him about custom objects and he said he only had one because it was just too cool to pass up.  I wish I could remember what it was.

Madame Guillotine?

 its true about tsr id love to know how the fa's are recruited , infact id love to know how some of the stuff even gets passed to be on the site , but foutunatly theres still enough good stuff there for it to be worth the sub .

and as ive said before i dont mind subs i pay them people deserve them , but some donation sets annoy me cause it can a little underhanded esp when u add up the cost of everything they have on there site

Always annoys me too, when I've bought sets individually, to see them grouped in a package at just over half the original cost!

I would really love to know what that one cool item that JM couldn't pass up.

Oh, and TSR has been recruiting crap FAs lately . They are churning them out like a mass product factory. Like one a day and what's most iritating is that Some of them are only doing recolors. They don't even make their own meshes. and you recruit these people to be FAs...sheesh. I feel unjustified for the mesh makers and those meshes are free, FOC at no charge! :(

I feel so annoyed that I am not going to sub to TSR anymore. Besides my dl folder is bulging.

Heh.  Sorry, I messed up.  :P It was something for SC4 he couldn't pass up.  Some sort of trash, Into the Abyss sorta thing.

ZZ, clear ur inbox and let me know when its cleared. Thks.

Done.

  Who coined the phrase "Donation Gift"? George Orwell?
"Extortion Goods" would seem to be a little more accurate.
  Just my 2 cents, keep the change.

Well, I certainly agree that "donation gift" is a bit of a contradiction in terms.  It can't be a gift if you pay a donation to get it.  I have no problem with "Donation Set" which says what it is, you pay a donation and in return you receive the set - but it isn't a gift, it's a purchase.

I have a much bigger problem with "free" programs which offer to clean up your PC, sort out your junk files etc. etc., and then when you download the "free program" you find it cleans up maybe a couple of files, tells you of 100 or so others, which you can get rid of if you buy the full program.  That is a con!

  A "Donation" is not something you pay for something with. A "Donation" is an end unto itself.
You either buy something or you don't.
  And holy crap yes about the "free" pc scanners!  Kinda makes me want to join (or start) a jihad against lying thieving capitalist pigs.
  The only thing worse is lying thieving commie pigs.
When I am in charge, things are gonna be different...

Hopefully that day is not about to dawn! 

I believe a certain Adolf Hitler said much the same thing......

If it were't for those "capitalist pigs" you wouldn't have a computer.  Unless you think your government bureaucrats could have created and distributed such technology.

somehow I think my government would refuse to distribute computers even if asked and i live in the U.S. :Plet alone create one ;D

No doubt you'd still need a room the size of a small cathedral to put your computer in!  (If they gave you one in the first place, that is!)

A small cathedral full of silicon chips and my 1200 baud modem will rule the world! Or at least Europe. Does that count anymore?

(edit)
  When I am in charge, JMP is gonna be my Minister Of Truth. He seems to have the right stuff...

On the topic of such oxymorons as 'donation gift,' I offer this:

I subscribe to Blockbuster Online. For roughly $15/mo., I get all the movies I want, three at a time, restricted only by the speed of the US Postal Service (for me, that means at least 10 movies a month, and I don't have to go anywhere, so good deal). In addition, I get 2 "free rental" coupons each month, good for DVD's or games at my local Blockbuster store.

Recently, I received an email from Blockbuster, urging me to "upgrade" my subscription. For roughly $17 per month ~ "only $2 more!" ~ I could get four "free rentals" (DVD's only), instead of just 2.

Now...if I have to pay $2 more per month to receive 2 more "free rentals," doesn't each of those "free rentals" actually cost me a dollar? (I don't rent games anyway.)

I wonder if anyone's fallen for it??

A bit like one month for the price of two......

Um, ... no.

That's it. JM is gonna boot you out of here anytime soon.. :'(

I download comparatively little stuff (less to be disorganized about that way); the only sites I pay for cc from are SimsHost sites (I'm lazy and they're convenient and some of them have really good stuff).  And of course my monthly membership fee here on MATY...  8)

Personally, I am kind of anti-paysite. I have subscribed to sites in the past, Peggy's for her hair, Sims Connection for the community stuff (I have some of Janna's hair, but most of it is pretty bad), and a set or two from Reflex Sims. Mostly though, I seriously balk at paying for this stuff. Part of it, I suppose, is because I do recolours and that kind of thing, and while I don't make my own meshes, I spend a lot of time doing it. And I give it all away for free. So why should I have to pay someone else for their items while I am giving mine away? A few times, like I said, I gave in and bought. And then I shared those suckers with friends, and I don't feel bad for that at all.

Though, I have to say something about people who "just" recolour or retexture existing meshes. It isn't always as easy as some of you seem to think, making something look nice. A good mesh is only half of the equation, the other half being the alpha layer and the texture layer. Also, not everyone is good at everything. There are an awful lot of really talented mesh makers that make not so nice textures. Likewise, there are people that are very talented at texturing that can't make a good mesh to save their lives. I prefer to think that these two talents are equally important to the end product.

liegenschonheit, where do you have stuff hosted?  Link?

Its all at MTS2 at the moment (I know how some of you feel about that place, but it has been good to me so far), my profile link is Here (http://modthesims2.com/member.php?u=15531). It's mostly gothy sort of things, but to each her own, right?

I figure I must be doing a halfway decent job, I've got one of those cow heads under my name and a fancy cow mascot trophy. :P

Oh, I just downloaded your sailor dress the other day. Nice job.  :)

No wonder I find your name familiar. I like ur stuff. Great Work! :D
Its more than decent... ;D

I don't subscribe to any sites (except here of course  ;)).  I have donated to Holy Simoly (my first donation ever).  I thanked them for the lovely things they created & you know what those guys did?  Flem & Shtinky actually sent me their donation pack free, just because they liked my comments.  How could I not support them after that!  Because of their kindness I felt it only right to donate.

There are some great people in this community Flem & Shtinky being two of them.

siggylove, I think you sent me a PM on another site.  I did get it, but I am unable to reply to you on that site, so I just wanted to say thanks and I'm glad you find the list useful.  :)

I pay for EZ Supporter at N99, and the subscription fee here. I always intend to join other places, but I tend to waste my money on skin-care stuff and make-up (I'm an Avon sucker), leaving me no discretionary income for the subscription sites  ???   Mind you, I buy skin-care stuff and make-up... but use the skin stuff rarely and the makeup *never*!   ::)

It could always be worse, I could not use it; and let my H waste it on whatever he wishes.  ;D

I've suscribed to Well Dressed Sim (http://www.welldressedsim.com), Sim Secrets (http://www.simsecrets.biz), Simplan-X (http://www.simplan-x.com/), I almost suscribed to Universal Sims, and I've bought numerous donation sets from 4EverSimFantasy, VitaSims, ReflexSims, and prolly a couple more I can't think of right now.

I prefer not to pay for downloads there are so many cool sites which offer free downloads. I have also noticed that when you do have to pay for downloads the site in question usually offer "tasters" or "freebies" which are of a high quality and when you do subscribe to said site the quality of downloads goes downhill. I don't mind donating but I rarely do (I have two kids to bring up) you can find beautiful and stunning free downloads if you just look for them. I also have the terrible habbit of getting bored of the cc in my game and I end up clearing out my downloads folder and starting afresh. ;D

I would feel guilty for not using content that I had paid for, and I would feel obligated to keep it in my game forever, whereas with free stuff, I can use it for a while, and change it out for something else if I want to without feeling guilty.  :)

Oh, Rainbow! That so matches exactly why I won't pay for downloads. For example if I bought a bedroom set it would seem extravagant not to use it in every house and (annoyingly) just as extravagant to use it in only one. Being an all or nothing kind of gal I'm left with no alternative ::)

I confess! In the past I have paid for subscriptions to The Sims Connection and bought two custom sets from Reflex Sims... the shame, the shame... Actually though, I use alot of the objects from SC in my lots and businesses, and I use at least a couple of items from the Reflex sets in every house. I have to say, I'm pretty likely to purchase donation sets from Reflex again, because their sets tend to be really large (one had like 70 files) and of really good quality. I don't even want to know the poly counts on them though >.<

Today, I only subscribe to PeggySims when I can afford it, because I have tried to live without her custom hair and can't, they are so lovely.

Rainbow, a good solution to that problem of pay items is to back-up the files you pay for elsewhere, so you don't have to feel guilty about taking them out of your game, because you still have them and can reinstate them if you want them again.

*edit* Silly me, I just realized I've already posted in this thread. Oh well, you all can bear with me repeating myself :P

Maybe Rainbow has the same problem as me. Once you took it out, you will never put it in again because there are so many stuff worth putting.

I am continously struggling to keep the download folder at 8000 files only and it's with considerable effort that this is achieved.

I have gotten worse since I start this thread. I got my eye on several paid sites but with the love of friends, we manage to keep each other afloat and so yeah, our wallets are still in the pink of health... ::)

Lie, I don't mind reading you repeating yourself. for some reasons, it make me feel better  ;D

I feel the exact same way.  Every one of my Sims' homes have something from WDS, or else they are wearing their hair and/or eyes.  I just feel like, after paying for them, there is no way I could delete them.  And WDS stuff is such high quality that I don't have a problem paying for it.  Too bad I can't say that for most of the other pay sites.

I subscribe to TSR -- I like the unlimited bandwidth of downloads for subscribers and the no-ads option. I like not having ads. I'll pay to not see ads, you know. :D

I also have a subscription at Simslice (has the best hacked objects!) and Simchic cuz I like the detail of the clothes there, and I stupidly shelled out $5 to Simskins before I realized that the only stuff I like are freebies. *headdesk*

I'd subscribe to JDsSIMulated but that server doesn't take Visa, and I only have one credit card -- a Visa. And you can't even get into the interior of the site to see what's available unless you subscribe. So, I'm sunk. Oh well. Shaklin's lovebed makes up for not getting to see what JDs has.

When the Sims 2 first came out, I subscribed to TSR and WDS.  Haven't subscribed to anything since probably November or December '04.
'

Simslice has crap objects. I've actually dissected them. Most of them are simply random collections of marginally modified Maxis codes, complete with their errors and idiosyncracies. Definitely not worth any money.

Reeeeally? Good to know. I was so enthralled with the whole weather machine object that I had the sudden urge to pay up. Thankfully my broke college ass brought me back down to Earth.

This is either a confession of purchase or else of theft ... ::)

I have yet to see a "weather machine "that actually works so my broke ass wont  be paying for one anytime soon either :P

I cannot imagine JM paying to receive cc. That idea is too far fetched. I will even believe a tall tale of elephants eating ice cream than this  ::)

Theft...more likely to be true...

Theft - not exactly.  Paying - not exactly.  ;)  I did pay for the files.  I asked Pescado to take a look at what they contained for me.

Humph. *I* like Simslice's stuff. It's worth the fee to me. So there. :P

I subscribe to TSR (although sometimes I really wonder why) and Sim Chic. At some point though I am going to get off  my lazy butt and cancel my subscription to Simchic because they don't update as much as I would like. I don't consder two updates in a month to be worth the $5 a month charge. Yesterday I just forked over the $10 for Peggysims site because I was dying to have some of the "donation" hair and decided to quit torturing myself with it.
If someone would have told me 2 years ago that I would be paying for custom content for a game, I would have laughed in their faces.  :-[

Heh, I suscribe to SimChic too.  I think they update enough for me - when they do update, it's usually with quite a lot of stuff.  Plus, their meshes are awesome and used by almost everyone.

And I have too many clothes anyway lol.

I didn't know there was such a thing! ;)

(Before pointing and laughing, know that I'm a real newbie when it comes to hacks & mods.)

I was so enthralled with the Simslice TS1 stuff, that I bought a sub and DL'd a lot of the TS2 stuff. I'm not nearly as enthralled with it as I thought I would be. Most of it sits on a backup/storage CD, and the only things I use are the costume trunk and the gizmo that increases the price of decor (so that when you sell it, it appreciates based on your Creativity level).

I currently have subs to Around the Sims 2, TSR, and here. All of them are worth it (though TSR is a on-and-off thing).

It seems I can't help myself.  I have 7 current subs. 

you know what i hate about this thread i now have to go vist all the sites that have been talked about so its going to cost me a small fortune , altho i have a new rule with hair if im paying for it it has to be binned .

and i dont know who said it but a share program sounds good esp for sub junkies ,

Well if we're to talk of value for money, then Around the Sims has always left every other pay site standing!

I don't actually sub anywhere now, I just can't afford it, except my once only sub to ATS2, and some remaining points at SimFreaks2.

you see another one up until 2 mins ago id never been to around the sims2 , now i want there dining room set , i dont rate there skins tho

Most of her skins were done very early on, and she hasn't done much since, but one thing about them, they are very high quality and look good in your game  some more exciting ones often look dreadful when you come to use them.  If you like some of the new sets, there are recolours over at MTS2 for the kitchen and living room, and also recolours by Damage of the office set and the chairs.

The only clothes I use of hers are the gym outfits and they are really nice.

I think I have a male teen outfit in one of my games.  But even the recolours of the awful Maxis originals are well done.  I don't often use them now, but at one time there wasn't much around and one was grateful for everything one could get!

I currently have  a sub to 5 different sites . and of course my sub to Maty brings my total to 6 I cant help myself :P I am a download a holic. then of course I also have my free subs such as MTS2.

Oh.

I forgot MATY.

Eight, then.  :P

Sigh.  Y'all are bad, bad people that make me want to throw money away to buy clothes and objects for electronic people that don't really exist!!  My husband already wants to delete them all and get his wife back. 

So, if you were like, going to pick the better deal (best quality, # of downloads, frequency of updates) would you choose Around the Sims 2 or Sim Chic?

Simchic.  Around the Sims 2 is very good quality (except, in my opinion, the Modern Line series - that looks awful to me), but they rarely update.  Save it for when you have a spare $5 and it never expires, so you don't have to worry about recurring charges with them.

SimChic, on the other hand, updates often and usually a lot of stuff at a time.  Not to mention that like half of the retextured clothes out there use their meshes.

If it's my cash, what business is it of anyone else's what I spend it on?

It affects us all in the end.  Without these subscription sites, we probably wouldn't have these "Fun" packs.  There weren't very many objects in OFB that weren't business related thanks to these "Fun" packs.

I really don't think my spending habits affect what Maxis does, sorry.  All the people that filled out that survey on the official site saying they'd love to spend even more of their money on a shopping pack full of crap objects did that.

And I wasn't one of them.

Seriously, if you don't like the idea of paysites, then don't you suscribe.  But don't try to dictate what I can do with the money I work for.

Where did they get the idea about charging people for "donated" objects?  People like you that are willing to pay for their custom content.

Why the heck do you want to pay someone that's good at photoshop a few bucks a month when there's someone out there that might be working even harder that asks no money for their stuff?  Heck, the stuff from those paysites aren't flawless.  I've heard hair meshes from PeggySims have the exact same problems that free ones do but some people that get subscription fees don't even bother to address these issues.   Yet people prefer them to someone who creates free content and fixes everything they start.

However, go ahead and spend your money on that stuff if you're so inclined.  I doubt that anyone could convince someone set on paying those people to do so otherwise.

Those paysites and sites asking for donations existed long before I was willing to throw a few bucks at them for stuff I wanted.  I'm very happy with the quality of stuff I get for what I pay for - and I've never donated to any site for hair as you're completely right about that, there is no way to tell what kind of quality it is.

As to whether I prefer it to free content?  Meh, I don't concern myself too much with that specifically - I like the sites, the end.  Holy Simoly has the best site for object meshes around, in my opinion, and it's largely free.  They have a donation pack too - why shouldn't I donate for it if I really want the content?

Convincing me to do otherwise?  Probably as likely as my trying to convince you otherwise.  So let's just leave it at that.

Oh, and by the way?  Arrrr...

Seems to me that many of the paysites are really just trying to cover the cost of the bandwidth. Like it or not, bandwidth = money to a server. And donation drives only go so far. Forcing people to shell out a couple of bucks to download more interesting stuff is a way of supplying the people with content, while not going broke yourself trying to provide freebies.

You're kidding, right? MTS2 turns a profit on voluntary donations. TSR is a multi-million dollar business by our accounting. Cover the cost of bandwidth my ass.

I pay for Peggy's hair, though it took me a long time to get to the point where I was willing to do so. Yes, some of the meshes have a few problems, but I am largely very happy with them. Hers are some of the lovliest hair I have in game, and she updates with new content quite often. Yes, I would be happier if she would bin them, but I can, and have, done that myself and "spread the joy".

Star is right, some sites offer limited pay content so they don't go broke paying for bandwidth. Some of them, like Sussi, for example, probably don't even break even. Some, like Peggy, make a profit.

The paysite thing is a touchy topic. I don't like paying for any of this, especially as someone who offers everything I make for free. However, it comes down to what people are willing to pay for, and just how much people are willing to do for free. I don't think that the solution is to rag on the people who pay for content, or treating the people who sell it like evil profiteers. For those people willing to pay a few extra dollars to make their game prettier, that is their choice. For those that refuse to do so, there is a lot of really nice free content and people willing to share.

I really don't think that the ammount of people willing to pay for custom content has had much of an impact on EA though, because those people are the minority in the community, and by and large they will only pay for things of better quality. I think EA is counting on people who will buy anything with a maxis logo to shell out cash for their fun packs.

I loathe them more when they make up excuses for their evil profiteering. If they flat out said it was evil profiteering, at least I could respect their honesty about their greed. Lies and excuses about how it's to "pay for bandwidth" and other such nonsense makes me sneer and spit at them.

The bandwidth excuse is bull when many of the creators at TSR, SimChic and other major sites are paid "salaries" for their work.  MTS2 is one of the largest sites around and is free and as far as I know, the owner doesn't pay a dime.  The only donation gift you get there is that icon next to your name.

If site owners wanted to, they could find alternative methods of hosting a site and/or uploading content without having to charge people for money.  In the end, they do it because they can and there are people out there, lots of them, who are willing to pay.  Most people, if given the chance to make money off something they enjoy doing would jump at the chance.

Well, why not?  People are free to choose whether to pay or not to pay, to sell or not to sell.  There are far more corrupt profiteers out in the Real World - perhaps some of your anger would be better vented against the multi-nationals that pay third world workers peanuts and sell the things they make at vast profits, the drug-dealers who target children, the evil men who export young women from Eastern Europe and force them to work in brothels!

As far as I'm aware, there is no exploitation in offering something for sale at a reasonable price, and leaving it entirely up to the visitor to the site whether they buy or not - no-one charges them for looking!

Yes, but those people are evil in a cool way. Note how they abuse and cause alleged misery. Besides, what ELSE do you do with third world workers? It's not like they're good for anything ELSE. Do you even think about these things?

Mostly, because I dislike their shady half-assed reasoning. Maybe if they were more openly honest about their shameless profiteering, it'd at least be something respectable. And abused someone. There needs to be some proper OPPRESSION here. It's just not cool to profiteer without oppression.

Do you know, this is the first time I've laughed in WEEKS! ;D

This is why dead threads should be left alone to RIP.

I don't think this one ever really died, just went into suspended animation for a while.

This is a ZOMBIE thread? :o

Or an interstellar space-traveller thread - take your pick!

Two months, from March 22 to May 22, resurrected by our dear friend SimplyTwo. 

Please tell me that "our dear friend" is meant as a euphemism? Pretty please?

Well, maybe new members should be given a rule book or something?  (I did notice it was two months, but other threads have been dead that long without comment, and much shorter threads get locked for no apparent reason, so how is anyone to know when to post on a topic more than a few days old?

I presume that our "dear friend" has since stirred up revived more trouble?

Of course.  SimplyTwo is the one who helped ElfPuddle earn her title!

As for what is considered a dead thread, I have heard that after a month, it is usually bad form to resurrect a thread unless you have a darn good reason.  Usually posts like this are rewarded by JM saying, "Necromancy is bad, m'kay?" 

I think support threads such as those for certain hacks in the Firing Range, etc., are the exception, since these threads stay open for people to post questions or comments on specific hacks. 

The question of when a thread should be replied to and when a new topic should be started has been the topic of much debate, and different forums have different rules.  Of course, MATY has very few rules.  This article should be interesting, however:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bump_%28internet%29

Well, it's just interesting that instead of the usual necromancy comment from JM, he stirred things up a bit instead.....obviously something he feels strongly about.

Yes, I found that interesting as well. :)

Well, SimplyTwo is certainly MY dear friend, and I thank her/him nightly in my bedtime prayers, but given the other comments on that thread, I assumed I was the only one. I guess I assumed wrong. You are a very welcoming person, rainbow. On SimplyTwo's behalf, let me say, "Thanks!"

Yes, that article was interesting. Dry, but interesting.

;)

(Did you ever notice how hard it is to talk when you have your tongue in cheek??)

Maybe it's time this thread moved house?  As it is, I can't honestly see why it's here - nothing is broken that I can see....

I keep biting my tongue. 

actually MTS2 does pay for bandwidth which is why they state that downloads are free but you have to be registered there to download the stuff. Delphy the owner has said time after time that bandwidth for the site costs around $1800 a month

They don't pay for it with their own money.  It's all donations and ad revenue. 

The main difference between sites like Mod the Sims and TSR is that donations at MTS2 are totally voluntary, and not linked in any way to downloads, whereas TSR dangles the carrot for you to bite and pay a sub or at other sites maybe donate for a set.  However, TSR also gets ad revenue, and the amount they get per month far exceeds the cost of the bandwidth and paying a reasonable amount to their creators.  If they spread some of that revenue around helping to support good free sites and keep them open, maybe they wouldn't get so much criticism.

oh to live in a perfect world , but people do tend to want to make money as well which if fine .

but then we have the whole quality thing going on , if its a business run it like one . which means getting rid of all the crap stuff they have there ,

and peggy sims is the same, i refuse to sub there again , till she sorts her site out

Holly, I would certainly agree with you there, there's no point in paying a sub if you have to do their work for them (ie sort out the rubbish and scroll through pages of it!)  I'm retired now, and I have to be very careful with money, so although I will treat myself to stuff I really want (I've just blown loads of points at SimFreaks2 so my poor sims can have a nice colourful livingroom, but everything I've got from there, I use again and again, and to me that's value for money, whereas I have loads of TSR stuff which is either sitting in folders and unused, or is in my game and waiting to be removed when I can get around to it!  So I'm very reluctant to sub there again, especially as on more than one occasiion I've thought I was taking out a single sub, and ended up having a 6 month one which was kind of annoying!

mm tell me about it , it took me ages to work out its a  rolling sub thing . and even longer to work out how to cancel it , so ive given up on tsr .

i did subscribe to simslice but quite frankly homeslice has been found wanting as for as ts2 in concerned

i love sim chic . and i think im paying rosesims2 mortgage off with all the hairs i have from there (she bins them now to)

as for money well its mine and its for spending , and we seem to get a good deal over here with the exchange rate being so good at the moment so it feels like spending monopoly money (im not sure my bank would agree with that given the state of my last statement)

Well, it's your overdraft!  It's no worse to be overdrawn because of your sims downloading than to be overdrawn because you absolutely MUST have the latest kitchen gadget or the latest trend in trainers!

true and in my case my fettish for eating out . really i dont know why i need a kitchen,

Ohhh dear. I have a dirty, dirty mind. Holly, you should slap me.

lol i dident mean it like that , but now youve said it im thinking 9 and half weeks , slap me to