OfB Employee payments: How broken are they, exactly?
pixiejuice:
Quote from: pbox on 2007 August 20, 19:01:06
I can usually fix things by making the owner selectable and having him kick his employee's asses
I do this too :) I use the mind-control mirror. I also use no reassign so the managers don't go around auto assigning all the cashiers to clean the toilets >:( I'm actually pretty happy with that setup, except for just that one problem of the employees getting paid (for a third time!) while I'm visiting.
I might have a look for that no quit hack. I think somebody linked to a collection of Squinge stuff somewhere around here...
J. M. Pescado:
Quote from: pbox on 2007 August 20, 19:01:06
I also find the ineffective-while-visiting businesses annoying, but I can usually fix things by making the owner selectable and having him kick his employee's asses .. unfortunately that only works when the visiting party lives in a different household from the owner. Ar least with the making-selectable thingy I'm using (Control-This-Sim, Dolphin26 @ mts2). Maybe there's other methods, or maybe BRY would take care of that?
BRY specifically addresses the fact that businesses completely collapse without constant manual micromanagement, yes.
syberspunk:
Quote from: J. M. Pescado on 2007 August 19, 14:46:55
Proposals of what can be done are open to consideration, but I can't really think of a better, less messy way that doesn't just substitute one problem for another.
Hrm... that is kinda sucky. In this case, double dipping sucks. :P I would suggest going the harsh route, and making so that, employers lose money while you are playing them at the business i.e. whatever their daily expenses are in salaries should remain as such. That part makes sense at least. However... if the employee sim is a playable sim, instead of making the money go anywhere, make it evaporate into the ether. :P
In this way... when you actually go to play that playable sim's household, they will 'recuperate' that money back from the ether. Think of it as having to play both sides of the 'timeline' as it were. This would at least solve this particular case of double dipping. Townies, however, could actually get to really earn their money, since you can't go and play them from 'the other side' or what not.
I'm not sure I get the thing about employees triple dipping. Are you saying that, if a sim is an employee of business lot... and they show up on that business lot as a visitor (either in the form of some group outing, date, or walkby) the mere fact that they are present, even if they aren't there to work because you didn't call them to work, they get paid for just being there?
Do they actually act as employees? i.e. as soon as they show up, regardless of how (in a group outing, date, or as a walkby) just their presence alone causes them to earn their wages? Do they actually perform typical emloyee duties while in this state of visiting? Or do they act like regular visitors who could be potential customers, and thus, they end up triple dipping by getting yet even more money from the ether? :-\ I are confused! ???
Ste
pbox:
Quote from: syberspunk
I'm not sure I get the thing about employees triple dipping. Are you saying that, if a sim is an employee of business lot... and they show up on that business lot as a visitor (either in the form of some group outing, date, or walkby) the mere fact that they are present, even if they aren't there to work because you didn't call them to work, they get paid for just being there?
I've never seen that happen -- actually I've no idea what the game does if an employee visits his own workplace .. is that even possible?
What they mean is, as I understand it (and as it happens in my own game I believe):
* Bob owns a business, his current familyfunds are 500§
* Alice works at Bob's business, her current funds are 300§
* Now Celia goes to visit the business and stays there for a couple of hours -- during which time, Bob pays Alice 100§ in salary and earns 250§ from sales or whatever
* Next time you enter Bob's home lot, no time has passed for him *but* his funds are now 650§
* Same with Alice: next time you enter her home, she's 100§ richer
In my eyes, this actually makes total sense -- if Celia spends money at Bob's business, that money should better end up somewhere. Also: everything else that happens to Alice and Bob during Celia's visit (say Alice meets Joe and Bob pees himself) will leave memories and affect relationships etc, it's clearly part of their lives, so why not the financial side of it?
I like your idea of employee wages going to the ether when playing a business, and coming back from the ether when playing an employee's home lot (that's what you mean, right? I'm a bit unsure since you say "employees lose money while you are playing them at the business" .. do you mean business owners lose money?). How would it tie in with the abovementioned "triple dipping" though? It would only work if the game keeps track of how much Alice should have been earning during Celia's 25 visits since we last played Alice's home lot, and adjusts her paycheck accordingly next time she comes home from work.
Ah, but the game already does that .. which was what I was originally complaining about, I think? Now I'm confused too! :D I guess your suggestion is actually the same as mine then, only with different payout times (upon lot load vs. upon return from work). Or at least the effects would be the same -- obviously I've no idea what the game looks like under the hood ..
syberspunk:
Quote from: pbox on 2007 August 21, 20:32:24
What they mean is, as I understand it (and as it happens in my own game I believe):
* Bob owns a business, his current familyfunds are 500§
* Alice works at Bob's business, her current funds are 300§
* Now Celia goes to visit the business and stays there for a couple of hours -- during which time, Bob pays Alice 100§ in salary and earns 250§ from sales or whatever
* Next time you enter Bob's home lot, no time has passed for him *but* his funds are now 650§
* Same with Alice: next time you enter her home, she's 100§ richer
In my eyes, this actually makes total sense -- if Celia spends money at Bob's business, that money should better end up somewhere. Also: everything else that happens to Alice and Bob during Celia's visit (say Alice meets Joe and Bob pees himself) will leave memories and affect relationships etc, it's clearly part of their lives, so why not the financial side of it?
Ahh! Now I get it! Yes, this makes total sense, and I agree. I think, in this scenario, if you are visiting a business that is owned by another playable and has playable employees, then the transaction of funds should remain as such. In this case, there is no need for an intermediate ether, as it were.
Quote from: pbox on 2007 August 21, 20:32:24
I like your idea of employee wages going to the ether when playing a business, and coming back from the ether when playing an employee's home lot (that's what you mean, right? I'm a bit unsure since you say "employees lose money while you are playing them at the business" .. do you mean business owners lose money?).
Dangit! I wish I had the modly powers to edit my mistakes quoted in other people's posts. lol. :D What I meant to say was, that employers should lose money, when you are playing their household, and visiting their owned business. That money should go to the 'ether' and not immediately to the employee. Instead, the employee will 'earn' their money when you play their household. That way, there is no 'double dipping' so to speak. In a way you can look at as having to play the business from both sides. When you're playing as the owner/employer, you are just seeing your own personal net gains/losses. Then, you can think of it as having to play the other side when you are playing the employee's household. Sure... it won't be as realistic... and it won't be exact either, since... I assume you can call in workers and have them work as long or as short as you want, rather than a regular 8 hours (or whatever) shift that the employee does when you play their household. But, I think that is still better than the magical double dipping that occurs otherwise.
Quote from: pbox on 2007 August 21, 20:32:24
How would it tie in with the abovementioned "triple dipping" though? It would only work if the game keeps track of how much Alice should have been earning during Celia's 25 visits since we last played Alice's home lot, and adjusts her paycheck accordingly next time she comes home from work.
Ah, but the game already does that .. which was what I was originally complaining about, I think? Now I'm confused too! :D I guess your suggestion is actually the same as mine then, only with different payout times (upon lot load vs. upon return from work). Or at least the effects would be the same -- obviously I've no idea what the game looks like under the hood ..
Hrm... yeah, definitely seems confusing. lol. :D I think, in the case of the playing as a visitor of the lot... the money earned by the employee and 'lost' or paid out by the employer is fine actually. In that case, it is like the employee actually earned what they worked for. I think the problem is just that, when you play the employees household, they end up double dipping from some magical ether, as you put it. So... to balance that out, that's why I suggest, when playing the employer at their business, salaries get paid out to the ether, from which it would be 'earned back' when you play the employee's household.
Yeah, it's not exactly the most consistent idea, and it has some minor issues, but this seems like the best, least messy, solution. You would only have to check, if you're playing as the owner/employer of the business, and do not adjust the household funds of any playable employee, since they will always earn money when they go to work while playing their household.
Ste
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