More realistic/difficult relationships?
Farsight:
Quote from: Soylent Sim
I'd be wary of a mod that capped LTR and/or STR on any personality criteria, however, as it would put someone else's perspective as to what gets along in a higher priority than my own storytelling urge.
Well, that's when you would use the "off" option on such a mod... :)
Quote from: J.M.Pescado
The factors determining whether sims left to themselves become friendly or not depends on a number of things, but nothing will really change your ability to force the issue by fiat if you're hellbent on doing it. One thing to note is that sim relationships invariably gravitate towards certain values: -100, 0, 100. There is basically no real way to avoid the fact that you will pretty much always move to one of those values. If you establish a positive or negative reaction and try to keep it, or let your sims do this, it will invariably move towards 100/100 or -100/-100. Otherwise, if you seperate them and don't let them interact, it will move to 0.
The boring thing is how it's -extremely- likely that the numbers will go to 100. It would make the game infinitely more fun to actually -play- if some Sims just plain didn't like the Sim I was controlling.
Imagine you take your Sim to a night club... you have him check out the room, target a nice-looking lady, shimmy up to her, lay on the charm... and she spurns him. Currently, the normal reaction in the Sims is to just do it again... and again... because the numbers nearly always head to +100. I feel it would be far more interesting if that weren't the case, and that night at the club might be spent having the Sim try his luck with a handful of ladies before finally finding one that he connects with... or not, and wandering home alone.
(Did I just share too much about my Friday nights?)
Throw in the ability for initially positive relationships to max out well below true love, and you have short flings and failed relationships that don't require boinking the maid while your lover is asleep on the couch. If we can't just walk into a crowded room, pick someone at random to be our soulmate, then harass them until they acquiesce, why are those jerk Sims so lucky?
I'd love it if there were a version of the Sims that was actually fun and unteresting to -play- as a game (an RPG of sorts), rather than having my interaction with the world essentially feel like a cheat.
Quote from: Flamingo
I've been friends with several people that I've had little to nothing in common with, and am still friends with one of them to this day.
I bet you didn't actually have -nothing- in common with them - I mean, you both dislike terrorists, right? Take a look at every skill stat, personality stat, aspiration and like/dislike in the Sims, and I'll bet you'd find something, even in that limited approximation of human personality.
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Besides, think of the poor popularity Sims!
Part of the effect of changes like these would be making some aspects of the game harder... but currently most of those goals are so easy as to lack any challenge beyond your free time and attention span.
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Taking it back to the sims, I would realy like to back the OP up on this. There should be a threshold on how good friends (or bad enemies) uo could be with others.
I just thought of how many of my childhood friends started out with a fight... but after that initial negative, we found we had a lot in common, and some of those guys are still my friends today. Conversely, I'm sure everyone has known people they had an instant connection with, only to find out as time went on that the initial positive didn't outweigh their differences.
The Sims is so heavily skewed towards a world where everyone is buddies that some of the most interesting social aspects are lost. Not to mention the loss of what could be challenging and rewarding gameplay. It also makes each Sim feel remarkably similar and interchangable. If my Sim is an out of shape and anti-social romance Sim, it doesn't really matter - he just needs to accost people an extra time or two before they fall madly in love with him. Even with an expert player controlling him, his life should be extremely hard. It would make him feel more like a unique little being, and would make helping him succeed feel like a true accomplishment.
jolrei:
The romancemod is great for dealing with the stupid Maxian jealousy interactions. I find it quite realistic that one or two of my romance Sim's lovers have become upset when he woohoos with a new lover, but others seem to take it in stride (provided that there is no formal relationship like steady/engaged/married). I also find it interesting that these offended female sims take a lot more time to become friends again and will refuse interactions to improve the relationship in some cases, which is realistic.
I agree however, that normally any Sim my playables might meet are easily made friends and best friends with a little persistence. What I have trouble with is negative reactions.
For me, negative relationships are much harder to get than positive. It seems that there are a limited number of negative interactions to do to other Sims (argue, annoy, prank). It's difficult for me to make enemies in my game. Perhaps I don't spend enough time arguing, or maybe my sims are not grouchy enough. I don't think I have ever had more than one fight. It would be more realistic to have sims who didn't all imediately like each other, or didn't want to be friends right after meeting another person.
I've seen the pop-up box that says "I just met this sim but I really want to get to know them better. I think we could be friends." (or something like that). Why not "I just met this sim and I think if I ever see him again I'll kick his ass."
jsalemi:
I suggest also using JMP's 'enemiesaccumulate' mod -- that keeps negative relationships negative, instead of their natural progression towards buddies if your sim doesn't force the issue.
Flamingo:
Quote from: Farsight on 2007 July 06, 14:51:48
I bet you didn't actually have -nothing- in common with them - I mean, you both dislike terrorists, right? Take a look at every skill stat, personality stat, aspiration and like/dislike in the Sims, and I'll bet you'd find something, even in that limited approximation of human personality.
Part of the effect of changes like these would be making some aspects of the game harder... but currently most of those goals are so easy as to lack any challenge beyond your free time and attention span.
I suppose a harder game would be nicer, but I don't find popularity Sims to be having an easy time of making friends. Right now, they have to know basically everyone in the neighborhood to fulfill the twenty best friends want. Of course, my neighborhood is brand new anyway.
It would have to depend on what the terrorist was trying to do, but I get your point.
Similarities aren't the only thing to look at, though. People with similar personalities may hate each other. Similar interests are more liable to show you someone you'd get along with, and I would hope that the amount of skills a Sim has wouldn't affect their relationship that much.
syberspunk:
Quote from: Flamingo on 2007 July 06, 12:31:04
I don't know that this limit on relationships would be anymore lifelike. I've been friends with several people that I've had little to nothing in common with, and am still friends with one of them to this day.
I've slept with several a few people that I've had little to nothing in common with. Maybe even a couple that I've actually hated, or ended up hating. :P
In general... I like the idea. I just don't see it being feasible with the sims... unless someone (not me :P) were willing to do something along the lines of the romancemod in size/scope that actually affected how general relationships worked.
Instead of having this friendship curve with min/max at -100,0, and +100, it would be neat if there were multiple potential min/max values dependent on multiple factors, such as personality, aspiration, mood, zodiac sign, gender pref, and interests - with maybe a bit randomness thrown in there since sometimes there are moments where a person can wear you down, or something happens that bumps you over that edge.
The problem would be, much like the rest of the game, is the is no real randomness and there is no real differences. Everything is pretty much a bit to the sims. An interaction is either On or Off, and there is no true 'artificial intellgience' as it were. Sims are not intelligent because they cannot learn from past behaviour. Sure they might remember an occurrence of something, but those memories hardly ever influence any present or future behaviour. Just because a sim remembered, obsessively mind you, that they burned pancakes the first time they tried to make it, it doesn't mean they won't burn pancakes again. Just because they remember being shocked by trying to repair something, doesn't mean they won't sadorandomly choose that interaction yet again.
As Pescado has pointed out numerous times, the game just sadorandomly chooses the same interactions over and over, whatever happens to be the sim's latest obsession. There really are no long lasting consequences that would significantly alter future behaviour. This notion of "finding the best action" seems to be something that is hardcoded and isn't easily modifiable. You might be able to improve things slightly with mods, such as romancemod, ACR, and dizzy's process autonomy changes, but ultimately, you still end up with sadorandomly repetitive behaviour. The thing about sims is... everything to them in game is an object. Other sims are objects to them, and interactions are just things that they sadorandomly choose to attempt, just because the game tells them that interaction is available to them, and supposedly advertises to whatever motives they "think" it will satisfy (which, 9 times out of 10, it doesn't :P).
Ste
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