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ZephyrZodiac:
I think any language learned mainly from conversation would leave the speaker at a disadvantage when trying to write, since most languages have synonyms and homonyms to confuse you. A lot of people learning from conversation, watching TV etc., don't even always really know where one word ends and another begins!
breyerii:
Generally it's true, yet English is very conservative in its written form. Comparatively Italian, while a grammar-heavy, difficult language, is easy to write for those who can speak it - and know how thigs are transliterated.
Pratical example: the English "e" can be an Italian "e" [bEtter] or vary, depending on, I guess, historical reasons [sEE]; our grammarians derermined, ad back as the Reinassance, that the written form has to follow the spoken form, so that an "e" is never ambiguous.
EDIT: there is an open "e" and a closed "e", phonetically, but the meaning is unchanged.
ElviraGoth:
Quote from: ZephyrZodiac on 2005 August 19, 00:56:16
I think you'd find those people from other countries who learned English in school will probably understand the difference between there, their and they're as they will have been taught the underlying grammar and syntax. People who will have problems will be those who are mainly self-taught, and as such do not deserve to be criticised as they have at least tried....so many people today expect the host country to bend over backwards to accommodate them, but make no effort in return!
I think that the effort depends on the person. If they really want to be a part of the country they have moved to, they make the effort to learn the language and customs. If I moved to another country I would like to think I would make every effort to learn the language. If I moved to France, for example, I would want to speak as much French as I could, even though it might be with an American accent. In Britain, though the language is basically the same, I would hope I could remember to ask for the loo instead of the restroom, more to avoid confusion than anything!
And I have made the effort in this part of the country to "fit in"; however, keeping my Midwestern accent is mostly an effort to keep my roots. I think if I started to pick up the accent I would be criticized (I can't believe I spelled that wrong before - I LOOKED IT UP!) as trying to be a "fake" or making fun of the people here. I don't want to offend anyone, therefore I feel being true to my roots shows I respect the people who have lived here all their lives. But there are just some expressions I can't pick up, mostly because they don't make sense to me. I'm afraid that if I tried to use them, I would be laughed at because I used them incorrectly!
And rednecks? I grew up on a farm in the middle of no-f'ing-where. My brothers made the unfortunate mistake of trying to skin a skunk they had caught in a trap. My mother grabbed a rifle to keep trespassers off our property. I lived in the heart of Redneckville! Doesn't mean I had to stay that way! I was taught to always try to better yourself. My parents are bigots because that was what they were taught. I grew up in the 60's and decided that I wasn't going to be that way. So I'm an EOI - Equal Opportunity Insulter! I slam everyone! lol!
ZephyrZodiac:
Yes, I'd agree that any language which is written phonetically is easier to learn to write as there are basic rules to follow which, once learned, make things relatively simple. Also, if you understand those rules, even if you don't understand a word of the language, you can read it aloud and make it sound as though you do understand what you are reading! (At least to others who also don't know the language!) The trouble with language teaching in the UK is that, in order to make learning a language accessible to every child, no matter how much they are already struggling with their own, we have stopped teaching the rules, and just teach convenient phrase, questions and answers, till it's more like training a Pavlov's dog to salivate at the sound of a bell than it is like teaching any comprehension of the language! One reason why I stopped teaching French and just taught basic subjects!
breyerii:
Oh my!
Then you know. I once read a monograph on Beckett, and he said he switched to French because it's more precise, more, so to speak, geometrical than English. Indeed, English is very flexible, and many things are suitable to be expressed in simpler terms - I mean, whenever I get lost with English constructions I just tone it down, and get a less elegant, yet similar result.
Latin languages, instead, are structured so that often concepts have to be expressed in a single way, lest sense changes. Convenient phrases may get you through Paris, Madrid or Rome, but, if I understood you well, there's no chance you'll read a novel with them.
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