Xenophobia challenge
J. M. Pescado:
Quote from: Gus Smedstad on 2008 September 28, 14:16:09
A Kohr-Ah style game is exactly the intent, perfect description. In fact I used my Marauder model for my run at the idea.
Your idea is a bit more hybridized, though. In my Kohr-Ah game, I do not monolith, but I do colonize freely over the bones of my enemies. Plus I also destroy all other sentients, whereas your game does not specifically require the annihilation of all non-Ur-Quan.
Quote from: Gus Smedstad on 2008 September 28, 14:16:09
I don't agree about the terraforming tools being not cost effective. They're $150K each, for $450K invested in a colony for terraforming, plus $450K in Colony paks (since we can't get those at a discount either), plus $750K in buildings yields 6 spice / minute.
150K each is a lot of money, when you consider that you will end up burning at LEAST 4-5 on average per colony to wrangle 3 Terras out of them, and in the meantime your colony is basically totally worthless.
Quote from: Gus Smedstad on 2008 September 28, 14:16:09
Total investment is $1,650K, of which you get a discount of $450K - 27% - if you deal with aliens.
Well, except you don't, in your game..
If you choose a decent color and get $20k / spice, that's $120k / minute, or 13 minutes to recoup your original investment. After that, the profit is tremendous.
I think anyone who has played Space for any length of time knows colonies are worthwhile in terms of income, and tacking on the cost of terraforming, even at full price, doesn't change that.
Quote from: Gus Smedstad on 2008 September 28, 14:16:09
I assume by monolithing, you mean dropping them in order to present more targets. Even that doesn't make much sense in the context of the challenge. You're the Kohr-Ah. You hate and fear all other sentient life. Making more is something the Kzer-Za might do, but the Kohr-Ah? Never. So, to be perfectly clear, monoliths are prohibited.
Ah, but *THAT* was not specified in the original. I was just saying that a variation on this was similar to the Kohr-Ah game. But in the Kohr-Ah game, there is no prohibition against colonizing, like there is in yours. YOURS was different.
Quote from: Gus Smedstad on 2008 September 28, 14:16:09
It's too bad you can't make battle thralls.
The monolith can make battle thralls. It's all about using those primitives as slaves. The +50 rel you get for "you uplifted us" is enough to all but guarantee an instant alliance. Useful if you're going green instead of black.
Gus Smedstad:
Quote from: J. M. Pescado on 2008 September 28, 15:56:12
Your idea is a bit more hybridized, though. In my Kohr-Ah game, I do not monolith, but I do colonize freely over the bones of my enemies. Plus I also destroy all other sentients, whereas your game does not specifically require the annihilation of all non-Ur-Quan.
I'm fine with both ideas, actually, but I was trying to avoid loopholes.
If you're allowed unlimited colonization, some weenie might achieve the Empire 5 badge while only exterminating races that were convenient to eliminate. I was hoping the "only one new colony" rule would force the player to actually prosecute wars with the proper amount of bloodthirst.
The intent is definitely the anhillation of all non Ur-Quan, but how do you enforce that rule? "All aliens must be exterminated as soon as possible" is fuzzy and open to interpretation.
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150K each is a lot of money, when you consider that you will end up burning at LEAST 4-5 on average per colony to wrangle 3 Terras out of them, and in the meantime your colony is basically totally worthless.
I rarely burn more than 3 to get T3. Actually, T2's are perfectly acceptable, since you can maximize economic output from cities once you get T2 provided you ignore turrets. Turrets are nice to have, but not vital for defense. The main drawback is that T2 only stores 10 spice, or 20 with a storage unit.
Yes, $150K is a lot of money, but you do get it back relatively quickly.
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Quote from: Gus Smedstad on 2008 September 28, 14:16:09
Total investment is $1,650K, of which you get a discount of $450K - 27% - if you deal with aliens.
Well, except you don't, in your game..
True, I was just saying that in general, losing the alien discount isn't prohibitive. The alien discount is highly desirable when not playing this challenge, but it's not a deal breaker.
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Ah, but *THAT* was not specified in the original. I was just saying that a variation on this was similar to the Kohr-Ah game. But in the Kohr-Ah game, there is no prohibition against colonizing, like there is in yours. YOURS was different.
True, I didn't specify it in the original rules. Consider it a loophole that's closed.
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The monolith can make battle thralls. It's all about using those primitives as slaves. The +50 rel you get for "you uplifted us" is enough to all but guarantee an instant alliance. Useful if you're going green instead of black.
Good point. I was just thinking about slaves acquired in battle. The Space stage doesn't really have the "cower mode" from the Creature stage, requiring surrender at gunpoint still leaves you with a significant negative relationship score, and they'll continue to attack you. Gaining a species as a battle thrall after vaporizing their colonies requires behavior that's out of character.
- Gus
J. M. Pescado:
Quote from: Gus Smedstad on 2008 September 28, 17:02:43
If you're allowed unlimited colonization, some weenie might achieve the Empire 5 badge while only exterminating races that were convenient to eliminate. I was hoping the "only one new colony" rule would force the player to actually prosecute wars with the proper amount of bloodthirst.
The intent is definitely the anhillation of all non Ur-Quan, but how do you enforce that rule? "All aliens must be exterminated as soon as possible" is fuzzy and open to interpretation.
Well, sure, if you limit yourself to Empire 5 as goal, that might be so. What happens if the goal is more properly Ur-Quan, though: Traverse the galaxy in the anti-spinward direction while exterminating all sentient life encountered, completing the challenge when you make it all the way around? The original challenge as written is not specifically Ur-Quan. If you want to make it an Ur-Quan challenge, you should start with specific Ur-Quan goals.
Quote from: Gus Smedstad on 2008 September 28, 17:02:43
I rarely burn more than 3 to get T3. Actually, T2's are perfectly acceptable, since you can maximize economic output from cities once you get T2 provided you ignore turrets. Turrets are nice to have, but not vital for defense. The main drawback is that T2 only stores 10 spice, or 20 with a storage unit.
An undefended planet produces basically no output because it gets bombed flat within 5 minutes.
Gus Smedstad:
Quote from: J. M. Pescado on 2008 September 28, 19:43:25
What happens if the goal is more properly Ur-Quan, though: Traverse the galaxy in the anti-spinward direction while exterminating all sentient life encountered, completing the challenge when you make it all the way around?
What most likely happens is that no one actually attempts it. Difficult is good, but tedious is not.
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An undefended planet produces basically no output because it gets bombed flat within 5 minutes.
That's not my experience. If I respond promptly to enemy attacks, generally I don't lose anything. The only planets I've actually lost have been T0 outposts. A single city plus no buildings does get smashed pretty quickly. And I'm speaking not just of ordinary play, but a game where I pissed everyone off because I was playing by the rules of this challenge.
Returning to the Battle Thralls: I stopped exterminating things when I hit Empire 5 and started working on other badges. Not that my xenophobic Primes had suddenly developed a liking for other races, but because I wanted to get the Zealot Hero acheivement, and straight conquest wasn't getting me the points. Anyway, I had an alien empire I had never contacted offer me an alliance. +30 for "we like new acquaintances," +10 for "Gracious Greeter," and +51 for "You scare the shit out of us," aka "we value your friendship."
Alliances with no concessions to lesser lifeforms seems within the spirit.
I'm going to edit my original post to reflect new rules.
- Gus
Zazazu:
Ha, all my militaristic race has gotten so far along that line is a negative 15 for feeling threatened by me. Obviously, I then gave them a reason to.
I'm not playing quite the way this challenge is, but I've been killing all empires that aren't immediately friendly to me.
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