Crash on resized lots at 7PM -- any ideas?
pbox:
Simsample,
thanks so much for your efforts. One more thing you could test (since you seem to be able to get the crashes more or less consistently): I'm going to reupload the Backdoor Lane lot without the street light in front on the Backdoor Lane thread -- niol suspects that the street light is the culprit, "I really tend to think it's the light that should not be placed over to the trimmed region coz this may affect the lighting data", quoted from the R+D thread -- if this is so, the version without light should not crash, not even with a CAS sim. I have no idea, myself, what the connection would be between light maps and CAS sims, but as long as it's solved that way we'd at least know what to avoid.
ETA: Backdoor Lane 42a (no street light) available here. From that post:
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Here is a reupload of the lot in the OP, without the street light in front. Everything else is the same (except that I moved the shrub in the backyard a bit to get rid of the embarassing leaves poking through the wall). This light had been added in the original lot *before* shrinking. I opened the original lot (the one I had packaged and uploaded here), removed the light, put the lot in the bin and back, packaged it.
Tested once with a CAS sim in a previously unplayed neighbourhood, no crash at 7PM. If anyone who does crash with the lot in the OP could test this to see whether it crashes as well, perhaps we can shed some light on the light issue.
Forgot to mention: I did not save while testing.
Zazazu,
you say you "stripped the place entirely" -- do you recall, by any chance, whether you removed the street light as well?
DocDoofus and Inge,
what EPs do your lots need? I don't have all of them, so I have no idea whether I can test those or not.
DocDoofus,
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1. Is it possible that the PACKAGE itself was damaged by the export packaging process, but repaired when I re-expanded and re-shrunk?
Yes, obviously, that's a possibility. The whole thing only happens on shrunk lots.
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2. Is it possible that the problem is only with the very first 7pm event
This is a known fact. Crashes only ever happen on the first day. As far as I'm aware, depreciation is at midnight.
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The export packaging process may not work perfectly with shrunken lots.
I crashed with my own lot myself. Without having packaged it. I had, however, moved it in the bin and back.
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there are TWO garbage cans. Is that deliberate?
Yes. I almost always do that, hasn't caused any issues so far that I'm aware of.
Rascal, behold_the_muse,
thanks for your input =)
All,
If it turns out that this is all just because of that stupid streetlight I put there, I'm going to be *very* *very* embarrassed. :-[
Also, there's a shrunk lot by aelflaed now up @ mts2 that you can use for testing (base game only).
Inge:
Well I shrunk a lot with the streetlamp on the corner (what was the corner after shrinking) and my lot didn't crash when I played it, so I would be surprised if that was the main factor.
I have all EPs installed, by the way and the lot at simlogical will probably need at least BV, not sure if it also needs the intermediate ones.
pbox:
Inge,
to clarify: you put the light there *first* and *then* shrunk the lot, or the other way around? (on your non-crashing lot) Going though my old screenshots I can see that I put the light in *before* shrinking in the Backdoor Lane lot .. about the other ones I can't tell for sure, right now.
Ah, shame, I can't test your lot then. No BV here. Will give aelflaed's a try.
Inge:
I shrunk a lot *with* the streetlamp on the corner - literally. Yes it was there before the shrink.
pbox:
If you're looking for up-to-date info, please take this post with a spoonful of salt -- check the last page of this thread first. I can't keep up with updates. Sorry.
Update: I just tested Backdoor Lane 42 against Backdoor Lane 42a. 42a is the version without street light, see above. Result:
Backdoor Lane 42a (no light): Plunked down in previously unplayed hood, made CAS sim, moved her in, played until 19:15 without saving, no crash. Exited without saving.
Backdoor Lane 42 (with light): Plunked down in the same hood, made another CAS sim, moved her in, played without saving: crash at 19:01.
Can anyone confirm this? -- Disproved by simsample, the light-less lot still crashes. Not significant. Also, see below (Inge's lot).
Gah. To me this looks very much like my stupid light is the culprit. How embarassing. I owe you all a *major* favour if this turns out to be true. Edit -- see Inge's post above: "I shrunk a lot with the streetlamp on the corner (what was the corner after shrinking) and my lot didn't crash when I played it, so I would be surprised if that was the main factor" .. yes I agree, street lights on the lot edge can't be the *only* thing then that leads to a crash. Maybe something like street lights in conjunction with CAS sims, not saving, EPs used, moon phase, ..)
???
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Rehash -- possible differences between scenarios that crash and those that don't:
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Time of the crash:
* Always 7PM in-game, with no exceptions.
* "I tried changing to night view in buildmode pretty much as soon as the lot loaded. It crashed straight away. For me at least this proves it has something to do with the change of lighting from day to night." (Rascal)
Day->Night change seems to play a role.
EPs used when building:
* Backdoor Lane 42 and Row House 01 have been built/packaged with Base+NL -- 7PM crash
* Row House 03 has been built/packaged with Base only -- 7PM crash
* aelflaed's lot is Base only -- 7PM crash
* Inge's lot is up to BV -- no crashes reported so far.
Rascal points out: "What I wondered about, and what I think Simsample was getting at, was that the lots made in a game with BV (ie Inge, DocDoofus) don't seem to crash, whereas lots made in a game without BV (yours and aelflaed's) do"
Good question. This may play a role.
EPs used during gameplay:
* I tested in NL only most of the time. All my crashes occurred in NL only.
* "As far as I can tell nobody with BV has had a crash. Simsample and I only have up to Seasons." (Rascal @ mts2)
Not sure how significant this is -- needs doublechecking against non-crashing users (do they *all* have BV?)
CAS sims vs. townies/premade sims:
* "I was consistently able to make the lot crash at 7PM using CAS sims- but using the Maxis bin sims or even townies, there was no crash" (simsample, a few posts up) -- tested with all of my lots.
* "I have also only had crashes with new CAS sims. Moving an existing sim into the house has never caused a crash yet. However, (..) I have had lots that don't crash with a CAS sim so either this isn't the only trigger" (Rascal, this thread)
This seems to be a consistent factor.
First vs. replay:
* (After a crash in one of my lots, using a CAS sim): "restarted the game immediately, and replayed the lot under the same conditions: No crash, it played fine. It seems that the auto save on move in affects this somehow." (simsample, a few posts up)
This has been confirmed by others too: in the event of a crash, there was never a crash on replay. Seems consistent.
Stuff on the lot:
* "I shrunk a 3x2 empty lot down to 1x2, placed in the lot bin then moved it into various neighbourhoods and moved in sims to see if any would crash. Out of 7 tests none have crashed." (Rascal, this thread)
The fact that only my lots have been crashing so far would seem to indicate there's something with the lots that I do differently from others. I mean, it can't be bad karma? nevermind. This lot (aelflaed) is crashing as well.
Street light at lot edge:
* All of my lots have a street light at the leftmost frontmost tile (seen from the street)
* Backdoor Lane 42 (with light) has been crashing, 42a (no light) has been not crashing. Only one test so far (by me), disproved by simsample (both lots crash).
* Inge's lot also contains a street light (same model) in the exact same location and has not been crashing so far.
* Aelflaed's lot has a different kind of street light (outdoor floor lights) and does crash.
No apparent significance (not on its own at least -- may still be a contributing factor).
Other possible culprits (objects on the lot, building methods):
* Driveways: There is a rotated driveway extension in the Backdoor Lane lot and two regular (moveobjectsed) driveway extensions in Row House 01. Row House 03, being Base only, does not have driveways. No correlation.
* Basement: Backdoor Lane 42 / 42a and Row House 03 have a basement. Aelflaed's lot does not, Row House 01 does not. No correlation.
* Foundation: All of my lots are built on a foundation, all of them crash. Aelflaed's and Inge's are not, no crashes yet. Zazazu's lots are on a foundation if I see it correctly in the screenshots .. no crashes yet, but it's the newest lot posted I think, so maybe there's an emphasis needed on *yet* in this case?
* Mailbox/trashcan moved off their original position: "Inge's lot (which did not crash for me) has the mailbox and trashcan moved just as Pbox's lots (which did crash) do..." (simsample) -- no correlation.
* Second trashcan: There are one or more extra trashcans on all of the affected lots (from frillen's "229 in-game objects" collections @ mts2 -- this is the actual in-game can, not a decorative clone). The cans are nowhere near the lot border. There are extra trashcans on almost all of my Backdoor Lane lots + some others, no crashes have ever been reported. Maybe it's the combination of extra can(s) + shrinking that's poisonous? Sounds a bit far-fetched (what would the game do with trash at 7PM?), but who knows. I know that there must be *some* point in time at which the game decides whether the outdoor trashcan is full or empty (sometimes it can be salvaged, sometimes not), but I don't know what time that is. 7PM is as likely as any other time, for all I know.
Used vs. new neighbourhoods:
* Most crashes have been reported from previously unused neighbourhoods (I think this could be just because people -- reasonably -- use (new) test hoods for testing?)
* "I have had a crash in an existing neighbourhood". (Rascal, this thread)
Not consistent.
Saving during gameplay:
* "I saved the game at about 6:50pm. Restarted it and it crashed." (DocDoofus in this thread)
* "I tried Backdoor Lane 42. It crashed at 7pm, right on time. I saved several times without any problem, though. The last save was at 6:54pm." (DocDoofus in this thread)
* Others have reported that they had not saved (I didn't, either)
Does not seem to play a role.
Lot orientation, adjoining lots:
* No significance found so far
Packaging/installing
* I don't package/install my own lots, and I had crashes. Sometimes.
* Everybody else obviously has to install my lots somehow -- some people crash and some don't.
No correlation.
Please let me know if you have any other ideas or if I overlooked anything. I'll try to keep this up to date. (I'll be here much less often during the week but I'll try)
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